LinuxQuestions.org
Download your favorite Linux distribution at LQ ISO.
Home Forums Tutorials Articles Register
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 04-16-2013, 07:37 AM   #1
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,659
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940
Hmmm... when did we go wrong?


Browsing through a blast from my own past, I was reading Steve Wozniak's System Description: The Apple II and in it I found this opening paragraph:
Quote:
To me, a personal computer should be small, reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive.
Where did we go so wrong?
 
Old 04-16-2013, 09:03 AM   #2
cortman
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2012
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Distribution: Crunchbang 11, LFS 7.3, DSL 4.1.10, Lubuntu 12.10, Debian 7
Posts: 219

Rep: Reputation: 43
Go wrong? *scratches head.
OT I just found an old Apple ][ in my barn- in pretty decent shape (just needs a cleaning). It would be cool to get that thing fired up!
 
Old 04-16-2013, 10:51 AM   #3
273
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian Sid AMD64, Raspbian Wheezy, various VMs
Posts: 7,680

Rep: Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373Reputation: 2373
The base iPad is "... small, reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive." (compared to computers back then).
Of course that makes it useless for a lot of things some of us like to do with computers.
The raspberry Pi is, apparently, "... small, reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive." if you know what you're doing.
My home PC is "... reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive." for gaming, virtualisation, consuming media and many other things though only because I find Debian easy to use most of the time.
I could pick up a laptop for ~$500 with Windows 7 preinstalled and that would fit the criteria also.
I'd say we're there and we have choice.
 
Old 04-16-2013, 11:19 AM   #4
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 11,223

Rep: Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320Reputation: 5320
The personal computers of those days were small, reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive compared to minicomputers. Minicomputers were the rack servers of their day.

The personal computers of today are small, reliable, convenient to use and inexpensive compared to rack servers.

I'd say nothing went wrong.

Last edited by dugan; 04-16-2013 at 11:23 AM.
 
Old 04-16-2013, 06:07 PM   #5
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,659

Original Poster
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940
Bah ...

"Sorry you missed all the fun," because it will never come again. "These kids today..."
 
Old 04-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #6
Habitual
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Abingdon, VA
Distribution: Catalina
Posts: 9,374
Blog Entries: 37

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
My laptop is more powerful than the computer that put Apollo 11 on the moon.
And smaller too!

I'd say we live in interesting times.
 
Old 04-17-2013, 05:52 AM   #7
salasi
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Location: Directly above centre of the earth, UK
Distribution: SuSE, plus some hopping
Posts: 4,070

Rep: Reputation: 897Reputation: 897Reputation: 897Reputation: 897Reputation: 897Reputation: 897Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Browsing through a blast from my own past, I was reading Steve Wozniak's
Well, them people of the Orchard-worshipping persuasion went with the wrong Steve. I know in your use of 'we', you might be thinking of 'you and me' rather than 'them', but that's part of the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Where did we go so wrong?
And, in a surprisingly technical answer (for a distinctly general question, in 'General'), I think that you could go for 'multitasking'. And GUIs.

Pre-multitasking and pre-GUI, computers could be less capable (less processor, less ram) and still get the job done, because 'the job' was so much less difficult. For a while, 640k was enough for most reasonable single-user requirements, nowadays 640M would be regarded as on the light side. And we are comparing 4 - 8 MHz Z80s and 8086s against 4 GHz Quad core 64 bit monsters.

So, why did we go down this path? Well, to generalise, the idea has been to make things easier for the people at the expense of making them harder for the computers. That trade-off couldn't have been contemplated, at least not to that extent, back in the day because even a VAX 11/750 (1 MIPS!) or a PDP 11/44 wasn't that much faster than a contemporary PC (a few times as fast, not 1000 times as fast). But, these days, we can make that trade-off, so what should we do? It certainly makes my life easier being able to have several programs running and minimise and maximise depending on what is highest on my agenda (that particular millisecond), but maybe having a Raspberry Pi and being more focussed would be better for the karma, I don't know.

It could certainly be better for the 'being able to haul my digital life around with me' aspect, but then a mobile 'phone, potentially, does that, and is way powerful compared top the 'back-in-the-day' PCs. In fact, the big disadvantage of a mobile phone is in the Input and Output area: whatever the other restrictions, I'm not going to be writing anything the length of War and Peace on a touchscreen keyboard. And I'm certainly not going to be taking a printer everywhere, either. But, in principle, a mobile phone is small, reliable(-ish) and certainly can be inexpensive(-ish) compared to computers of the time - while the latest HTC-mega-phone (?) has a noticeable price tag attached, you can buy a phone at the less desirable end of the market quite cheaply (although not a current iPhone, obviously - maybe Woz has an opinion on that). And the phone does a lot of stuff that a computer from back didn't do, obviously - take photos, and even, in extremis, make phone calls, which is nice, potentially.

You can certainly argue that the average Office 'Droid would have had more difficulty adapting to computers, had we not gone down the GUI route. Now, would this have been such a bad thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Where did we go so wrong?
Did we go wrong? I'm not sure that we did.
 
Old 04-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #8
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,659

Original Poster
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940Reputation: 3940
640K? What luxury!

(I've got my tongue firmly in-cheek in this thread.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 04-17-2013 at 09:00 AM.
 
Old 04-18-2013, 07:25 AM   #9
Mr. Alex
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2010
Distribution: No more Linux. Done with it.
Posts: 1,238

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
To me, a personal computer should be big, loud, powerful, with mechanical keyboard, big tower, UNIX OS and should produce a lot of heat. I just plug my earplugs and work with pleasure.

P. S. My own PC doesn't quite correspond to this description but it could.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 09:38 PM   #10
nobuntu
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Distribution: Debian for server, CrunchBang for everything that's not a server
Posts: 143

Rep: Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitual View Post
My laptop is more powerful than the computer that put Apollo 11 on the moon.
And smaller too!
I often think about this. It's true even of my machine
 
  


Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hmmm...just a few questions :) RoaCh Of DisCor Linux - Software 4 12-24-2004 04:36 PM
fedora and xp HMMM? oldschoolgamerz Fedora 1 11-02-2004 02:56 AM
After install mandrake 10.0 hmmm? 45pferde Linux - Newbie 1 09-09-2004 09:31 PM
Hmmm, where did i go wrong ? Reefcrazed Fedora 2 09-04-2004 12:38 PM
Hmmm mikeyt_3333 Linux - Security 5 08-13-2001 05:33 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration