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Old 10-14-2017, 05:22 PM   #16
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Lacroix View Post
...I also doubt that most people, if they weren't actively offered such option when buying a new car...
"Actively offering" being a polite euphemism for "we're not giving you the choice, you can't have this car without it"

A long time ago somebody told me that the way to find the worst part of a new car was to look at the feature being advertised; I mistakenly thought that too cynical.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 04:53 AM   #17
Philip Lacroix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
"Actively offering" being a polite euphemism for "we're not giving you the choice, you can't have this car without it"
Unfortunately that's often the case. And that's exactly the sort of pushy policy that would have them lose a potential new customer (i.e. yours truly). I suspect that such a loss wouldn't ruin their "seller experience", though. Most customers probably just swallow the thing and assimilate it.

Quote:
A long time ago somebody told me that the way to find the worst part of a new car was to look at the feature being advertised; I mistakenly thought that too cynical.
Yeah, that probably wasn't. I believe that some sound cynicism exercises can be safely made, without the risk of being unfair, on hype masterpieces like this, which I guess is quite representative of the way new gadgets are often advertised:

Quote:
Originally Posted by some hype generator
<New_feature> is enabled by the <buzzword> camera and is simple to set up. It projects and analyzes more than 30,000 invisible dots to create a precise depth map of your face.

What could be more natural than a touch? A look. That was the insight behind <new_feature>, a powerful and secure authentication system that's even more convenient than <old_feature>. It makes unlocking your <gadget_name> fast, easy, and intuitive.
Notice the huge gap between the declared scope of the feature, and its actual and (of course) not mentioned implications, which in this case go well beyond "convenience" and mere marketing tricks.

Last edited by Philip Lacroix; 10-15-2017 at 08:36 AM.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 09:54 AM   #18
rokytnji
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I kinda look at these weak features with hacks to bypass them as a mechanic would.

Like the anti theft chip built into chrome ring < used to detect the correct key is inserted to turn on the ignition computer module> on my wifes 2 seater sportscar big enough for her and her purse.

Seems the hackers at least post how to's, so one can do bypasses at home < kinda considerate, I think> . Which I did when my wife’s car anti theft thing broke. Killing a expensive car. Took me 2 days to figure that one out. But saved me probably a 1000 dollars.

So. I look at these complicated features breaking eventually < They all do >. As all complicated things with many many steps to do a simple job do.
That is why my previous post above shows gear that runs on points ignition and old tech. Capable of working.
Even with a EMP blast.

Another way to look at it. If you are skilled like I am. You can pick up this modern gear/cars/trucks/fridges/etc...., cheap used. Because no one else has the skills to repair these things like I do. Believe it or not. Input boards>controller boards>output boards. Can be bypassed by hard wire if you know how to read schematics and have a solder gun. Retrograde them so to speak. Depends on size and build of gear though.

Uneducated ,considered ignorant, 3rd world hard working peasants, < I'm close/not far from being just that >, have taught me a thing or two about living in today’s modern world < bic lighter disposable tech> . Probably why I admire them so much.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 10:08 AM   #19
Turbocapitalist
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Here's a somewhat recent example for one brand of car locks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewMZCxi8l8A

He does not go into detail, but does give enough information that you could do it yourself with a little experimenting. The car companies are not even trying to protect the cars they sell.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 05:59 PM   #20
Philip Lacroix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
I kinda look at these weak features with hacks to bypass them as a mechanic would. (...)
I don't mind getting my hands dirty and trying to get things fixed, as long as my skills are adequate for the task. Unfortunately the increasing complexity and miniaturization of many devices are often limiting the ability to do that without special equipment and knowledge. Desktop and laptop computers are still moderately accessible (as long as they have screws and not rivets, like one well-known, locked-down brand) and one can still do useful things with simple tools like a screw driver or a hand solder. I wonder if "features" like the one described by Hazel in the OP could be safely "disabled" (as in "unwired"), provided that a mechanical key is still available, without causing some inconvenience, like preventing the owner to lock or unlock the car.

Quote:
Uneducated ,considered ignorant, 3rd world hard working peasants, < I'm close/not far from being just that >, have taught me a thing or two about living in today's modern world < bic lighter disposable tech> . Probably why I admire them so much.
Unfortunately a higher formal education doesn't imply intelligence, clearness of thought, wisdom, respect, open-mindedness, or the ability to solve problems outside of one's area of expertise. It doesn't even imply that the brain is ever being used outside of one's conventional working time.

I know a few people who have a degree but are lost when something trivial breaks in their home, have the worst prejudices about other people, different cultures or anything they don't know, as if they had never received any decent education but had formed their own world view by watching some chauvinist and fearmongering news channel. On the other hand, somehow the other extreme, I also know a few people who don't have any higher degree, or any at all, but do have a genuine, active intelligence, open-mindedness, and a deeper understanding of some of the so-called "great questions", while being able to "hack the world" successfully and, overall, being great fellows to talk with.

Guess which one, of these two groups, I do respect more.

Last edited by Philip Lacroix; 10-16-2017 at 05:29 AM.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 06:17 PM   #21
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Arrow

Voice and\or facial recognition...


there's making things "easier and easier" (those newfangled stairs,,, you can't even roll a rock up them) and there's making money, not the same‽
 
Old 10-16-2017, 03:58 AM   #22
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Figuratively speaking, some people prefer to personally roll the rocks uphill, both to stay in shape and to be sure that those rocks only go where they want them to go.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 04:19 AM   #23
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Wouldn't it be better exercise if the rock is chasing us down the hill, kind'a like before we were top of the foodchain?
 
Old 10-16-2017, 04:47 AM   #24
Philip Lacroix
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The problem is that some people are chasing, and others are chased, and even tricked into believing that being chased is not such a bad thing. As in the "nothing to hide" argument, for instance. As a matter of fact, and still speaking figuratively, not all humans are on top of the food chain. Most are not.

Last edited by Philip Lacroix; 10-16-2017 at 04:49 AM.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 05:25 AM   #25
jamison20000e
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Because we're not all 2.0 (if any) we perpetuate grouping...


if a car is self driven, can it not then teach us to drive‽
http://asirt.org/initiatives/informi...ash-statistics
 
Old 10-16-2017, 05:53 AM   #26
Philip Lacroix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e
if a car is self driven, can it not then teach us to drive‽
I fear that it might be the other way round:
https://xkcd.com/1897/

And I don't know how strong would be their willingness to teach us, if they were subjected to this kind of abuse:
https://xkcd.com/1559/

Seriously, though, too many people keep forgetting that when they drive a car they are still subjected to the laws of physics.

Last edited by Philip Lacroix; 10-16-2017 at 06:07 AM.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 06:05 AM   #27
jamison20000e
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Exclamation

You're thinking as someone with the statistics in the link I posted, now think different...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 10-16-2017 at 11:03 AM.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 06:10 AM   #28
Philip Lacroix
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Quote:
You're thinking as someone with the statistics as in the link I posted
I don't, be reassured.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 06:33 AM   #29
jamison20000e
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won't be but generations pass
 
Old 10-16-2017, 06:44 AM   #30
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I'm sorry?
 
  


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