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Old 06-26-2020, 01:34 PM   #16
RickDeckard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Somehow I get the impression that you're not black. Or homosexual, or muslim, etc.
What's with the genetic fallacies? The validity of a statement has nothing to do with where it comes from. Stick to your impression of what's been given.

That being said, I'd like a certain segment of society to stop living in dream land and pretending X or Y is "inherently morally righteous", incapable of committing acts which indicate a mentally disturbed mind for sympathy and head pats.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 02:38 PM   #17
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Stirring things up?

Imagine if Trump supporter had supplied the noose. Another possibility in a Alternate universe.

I guess covid has the on liners on super sensitivity mode.
That was a hell of post teckk.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 04:34 PM   #18
orbea
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Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd View Post
Because members of those groups would not post this. Only white, right wing conservatives have this viewpoint, at least in the US.
That doesn't answer my question and I've seen people of all sorts of backgrounds, ethnicities and political/social positions have a wide variety opinions on this matter, but what a horrible racist generalization on your part. Please don't do that.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 04:48 PM   #19
sevendogsbsd
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OK, point taken. I see attitudes like this time and time again both in person and in the news so made a generalization. My bad.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 08:52 PM   #20
enorbet
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I tend to be cautious about police reports. Maybe I heard too many tongue-in-cheek, smirky raciat jokes growing up. I'm fully aware on a similar front that sometimes women cry rape falsely to punish some man, but I'm also aware that the process of reporting rape has largely been so humiliating for the victim at the same time many rapists go free or are given light sentences inconsistent with the crime. Even my father, an actual good man, would joke about rape saying things like "When rape is inevitable, just lie back and enjoy it". In his defense he imagined rape was just about sex and had nothing to do with hatred and violence since he wasn't wired that way. However ultimately that was part of the problem and certainly not part of a solution for a systemic injustice.

It's difficult to give examples of racism citing smirky injustice jokes but I'm confidant most people have heard some. Certainly there are people who for whatever reason commit hoaxes but even a list of 100 is an incredibly small sample relative to the hundreds of thousands of actual cases each year in these areas of prejudice. Be careful and vigilant. It is often a "dog biting it's tail", a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 09:58 PM   #21
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
For anyone following this mess with curiosity, and a desire for real facts.

Bubba Wallace makes 9 noose hoaxes now. And yes, we are keeping track.
Could somebody please give me some context. How many non-hoax incidents? 0? 1? 10? 100? 1000?
 
Old 06-26-2020, 10:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Could somebody please give me some context. How many non-hoax incidents? 0? 1? 10? 100? 1000?
Lot's of members here. I'll start. If enough play and hijack this thread. We might end up with more links than was posted originally.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/white-supr...ry?id=62549116
 
Old 06-27-2020, 03:13 AM   #23
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Don't like those facts outside of the narrative huh?
teckk, I'm not disputing the facts.
But you have accumulated them so selectively that it seems like you have it out for these particular groups.
That's why I asked you the question.

In other words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Of course there are false claims of hate crimes. And of arson. And of burglary. And of anything else you care to mention. People make them for various reasons, ranging from profit to mental disturbance.
And also this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Could somebody please give me some context. How many non-hoax incidents? 0? 1? 10? 100? 1000?
Your tidbits lack context.
 
Old 06-27-2020, 08:05 AM   #24
teckk
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Quote:
That's why I asked you the question.
Yes, that's what I thought you meant. "If you were one of those groups you might think differently"

I'm beating the same drum that I have beat before. The agenda driven media and others are making the race divide seem worse than it is. They are not honest people. It is not as bad as they are trying to propagandize. How many times have we seen them lie, twist, edit, to push an agenda.

We are not at war in the workplace, black against white, nooses hanging everywhere. We get along fairly well. This is more of a political problem than a race problem. We call them race pimps for a reason. They make a living stirring up race problems. And If they can't find one, no problem, make one up. That is what those links show. And there are many more. I picked some of them.

Quote:
Could somebody please give me some context. How many non-hoax incidents? 0? 1? 10? 100? 1000?p
A bunch, I don't know how many. No problem hearing about those. They aren't hidden. No one is suggesting that all reports of hate are false. Duh.

Quote:
But you have accumulated them so selectively
Yes of course. To show that there are a bunch of false race hate, gay hate, incidents. There are groups of people making things up.

Cheer up America, we aren't as bad as the race pimps, with a political agenda, are trying to get you to believe.

I'm not sure that Floyd was a race incident. More like cops out of control, and they are told by their departments to do that, and the departments get their ideas from the courts, which are out of control.
 
Old 06-27-2020, 10:21 AM   #25
michaelk
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Again, IMHO reported crimes alleged or otherwise that are high profile like hate and assaults are sure to be picked up immediately by the new media. If after being investigated which can take weeks are proved to be false then so be it but they are not fake. In the US, knowingly filing a false police report is a crime that can be punishable.
 
Old 06-27-2020, 02:27 PM   #26
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
A bunch, I don't know how many. No problem hearing about those. They aren't hidden. No one is suggesting that all reports of hate are false. Duh.
I don't think there's any sense in keeping track of the number of false reports, without comparing against the number of true reports. I have no idea whether 9 is a large or a small number.
 
Old 06-27-2020, 03:02 PM   #27
teckk
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Quote:
I don't think there's any sense in keeping track of the number of false reports, without comparing against the number of true reports.
Really? So if only 1/4 of the reports are false then that's good? Because there is a 3 to 1 ratio?

One false report is bad. It shows that someone is lying.

Lots of false reports show that there is a conspiracy to defraud, trying to push an agenda/narrative/political viewpoint that they want pushed. Done by political operatives.

Quote:
I have no idea whether 9 is a large or a small number.
Nine false reports of nooses put up to scare/harass/intimidate black people, that did not happen, and there have been more, some put up by black people. And you say that you don't know if that's an high number or not, just depends on how many real ones there are.

Same with the false hoaxes of gay people lying about "right wingers" attacking them. What is the agenda here? Why would one do that?
 
Old 06-27-2020, 04:31 PM   #28
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Really? So if only 1/4 of the reports are false then that's good? Because there is a 3 to 1 ratio?
I'm sure I never said any such thing.

Quote:
One false report is bad. It shows that someone is lying.
One true report is bad because it shows that someone is racist. One death from Covid-19/police murder/terrorism/"regular" murder/etc is bad, because someone died. In the real world, we can't really expect to have only good things happen all the time, so I think statements of the form "even one <bad thing> happening is bad" are pretty useless (although politicians do tend to lean on those).
 
Old 06-28-2020, 03:16 AM   #29
enorbet
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Teckk it is entirely possible you are "making mountains out of molehills" or "tilting at windmills", whether knowingly or by influence. Firstly you assume the conclusion in your premise when you interpret "comparing true points" as "4 to 1". In fact in one sentence you drift from 4 to 1 to 3 to 1. A drift from 25% to 33% is not trivial especially if the ratio is very likely more like 40,000 to 1. That might indicate a bias in perception or reporting or both.

Secondly as to "why?", it is done all the time on any point of the political spectrum, right, left, or undefined. Just look up "swiftboating" to see what is meant on the flip side. If a person or group perceives that lies and spin-doctoring are being used against them to either increase action against them or decrease the perceived validity of their concerns, that group or person may respond in kind since they already perceive any real evidence will be spun and discounted and just settle for a great quantity to try to counter and shape public opinion, sway the median.

I totally agree with you that in principle honesty and fair play are the High Ground, but routinely people of all kinds cheat at poker, especially when the stakes are very high.

Last edited by enorbet; 06-30-2020 at 04:41 AM.
 
Old 06-28-2020, 08:45 PM   #30
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What about Police hate crime hoaxes do they count too?

The supposed recent poisoning of 3 New York Policeman at a Shake Shack? It went viral by a conservative tabloid but was falsely started by a Police labor union.

There was a Police officer in a Starbucks recently that supposedly found on his coffee cup F-ing pig. It was later determined the officer himself wrote the words as a joke?

There was a Police officer at a fast food restaurant that supposedly found a bite in his sandwich. He forgotten he had started eating it and then put it away.
 
  


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