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Old 09-15-2019, 11:31 PM   #76
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
How many kids, having kids you got?
I'd say the joke is on you. I don't have any kids. What made you think I did?
 
Old 09-16-2019, 12:09 AM   #77
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Just a hunch, not that I trust anyone on the internet as I am just a 12 year old girl's artificial intelligence program...
 
Old 09-16-2019, 04:46 AM   #78
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The "overpopulation" argument reminds me somewhat of Nazi "politics", where the solution is simply to kill people (scapegoats) in their millions to supposedly improve the quality of life of others. It also calls to mind Nazi "politics", in that it's shallow populist rhetoric which is all about blame - i.e blaming people for having children and turning a subset of the population against those who have too many children - and of course distracting them from the real problems.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 05:10 AM   #79
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I think those who are childfree need to be a little careful. As a childfree person myself [by choice] it can be very easy to get carried away by insulting those with children and calling them 'breeders'. It doesn't really help anyone and it's not right or fair. If people want to have kids, they are planned and are bringing them up in a good home, that's fantastic and the best way. However, families having too many children for the sake of it is a concern and, in this country, there are many people who have kids just to get more money from the government. All over nature, we are shown that a habitat can only sustain a certain amount of a species before the growth curve levels out and drops. The world population is currently 7 billion and it's estimated that issues will occur around 9 billion whereby we'll be heading for a permanent decline. Really China has the right idea enforcing a two-child policy. I know of quite a few people whose have five or more children [in some cases ten or more] which is unnecessary and damaging with respect to how it contributes to population growth and its effects in the long-term.

Last edited by Lysander666; 09-16-2019 at 05:11 AM.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 05:49 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
However, families having too many children for the sake of it is a concern and, in this country, there are many people who have kids just to get more money from the government.
While that does happen, it's also true that people who have a lot of children and don't get money from the government, or do, but did not have the children for that reason - get lumped into the same category and discriminated against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
The world population is currently 7 billion and it's estimated that issues will occur around 9 billion whereby we'll be heading for a permanent decline.
It's all conjecture from "experts". This has been revised again and will be again. As it says in the article, the UN expect population to continue to grow. The article attributes the slowdown and reverse to societal changes. I'm not sure that's realistic as the world's economy is not set in stone for the next 50 years. And women relocating to the cities, getting better education and having fewer children, globally, really does all hinge on economic variables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Really China has the right idea enforcing a two-child policy. I know of quite a few people whose have five or more children [in some cases ten or more] which is unnecessary and damaging with respect to how it contributes to population growth and its effects in the long-term.
I'm not so sure about China's dehumanising policies.

Forcing women into mandatory contraception and sterilisation and fining families for having a second child. Corruption usually meant that the elites could get around such restrictions, where the poor suffer as a result. There were cases where a single child grew up to support their own family and financially support their elderly parents and even grandparents, due to lack of siblings to share the burden. The 2015 2 child restriction is an amendment of the same policy.

The last I heard, China may drop the "family planning" rules altogether as birth rates are falling.

So again, those in power revise the propaganda as they see fit.

Last edited by cynwulf; 09-16-2019 at 05:50 AM.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 06:09 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Forcing women into mandatory contraception and sterilisation and fining families for having a second child. Corruption usually meant that the elites could get around such restrictions, where the poor suffer as a result. There were cases where a single child grew up to support their own family and financially support their elderly parents and even grandparents, due to lack of siblings to share the burden. The 2015 2 child restriction is an amendment of the same policy.
Another problem in China was that families needed a son to perform the necessary rituals on the death of the parents and to inherit their property. So when they could only have one child, they made sure it was a son. Most of the girls were "stillborn". That generation is mostly male, and now that they are old enough to be looking for wives, very few will find them.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 07:24 AM   #82
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<----

Dogpatch: obviously started as a kid, where does it say a few weeks ago?

I don't think some of you are thinking hundreds of years from now, how could you‽

It is like religion and politics, however, a circular argument until whatever happens-happens...

Communism and socialism kind of seem like anarchism (and definitely not quite ) only on larger scales and on smaller scale you tell your kids want to do as the dictators, don't you!?.

I'm all for freedom and definitely against any kind of racism towards bodies*. And. I mean true Freedom (not this electoral college and tons of other stupid laws bull$h!t) as long as you don't hurt anyone else,,, which having tons of babies multiplying does.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 08:06 AM   #83
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A large proportion of contributors to this forum (including me) live in countries where the birth rate is already well below replacement. In these countries it makes even less sense to decry people with "large" families, they are clearly not even maintaining the population, but are doing the difficult job of child-raising in an environment where a lot of people don't want to.

I often wonder about the actual environmental effects of people having fewer children. The received wisdom seems to be that humans damage the environment, therefore less humans is good for the environment, but I suspect that is an oversimplification. On a global scale the level of environmental damage seems to have more to do with a nation's wealth than its population.

My impression is that most parents split their means between whatever children they have, so a child of a large family might have a small bedroom, second-hand toys and a walk to school, while an only child with parents in the same income bracket might have a large bedroom, the latest toys and get driven to school. I wonder how that affects the children's outlook. Will the ones who walked to school be more likely to walk or cycle to work, for the sake of the environment? Will the one used to driving decide to buy a small car and "only" one new 'phone a year, for the sake of the environment? I really don't know.

I don't think we should all strive to be poor, but at the moment wealth seems to come with some unfortunate habits.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 09:03 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
{...}Communism and socialism kind of seem like anarchism (and definitely not quite ) only on larger scales and on smaller scale you tell your kids want to do as the dictators, don't you!?.

I'm all for freedom and definitely against any kind of racism towards bodies*. And. I mean true Freedom (not this electoral college and tons of other stupid laws bull$h!t) as long as you don't hurt anyone else,,, which having tons of babies multiplying does.
This idea is similar to circular reasoning. Cause from other side capitalism also seems like anarchism(with money can do whatever). I cannot comment how exactly it was executed because wasn't alive at those times, nor am i expert in history, but many people who lived in those times claim it was not actual communism or socialism but changed versions of those definitions to fit those in power and contained elements of capitalism aswell, it is also reflected in studies. And post soviet unions are not really living better after USSR collapsed. I guess only by living in those countries or travelling people can truly grasp difference. Cause it is complex topic to discuss. It requires new thread to be discussed properly. I simply will mention that Zeitgeist movie is correct about 'utopian society', it is human condition that needs preperation for any system not system type itself that is flawed or perfect.

Aren't we all freedom seekers? World is not overpopulated yet. -_-
 
Old 09-16-2019, 09:32 AM   #85
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastychomper View Post
A large proportion of contributors to this forum (including me) live in countries where the birth rate is already well below replacement. In these countries it makes even less sense to decry people with "large" families, they are clearly not even maintaining the population, but are doing the difficult job of child-raising in an environment where a lot of people don't want to.

I often wonder about the actual environmental effects of people having fewer children. The received wisdom seems to be that humans damage the environment, therefore less humans is good for the environment, but I suspect that is an oversimplification. On a global scale the level of environmental damage seems to have more to do with a nation's wealth than its population.

My impression is that most parents split their means between whatever children they have, so a child of a large family might have a small bedroom, second-hand toys and a walk to school, while an only child with parents in the same income bracket might have a large bedroom, the latest toys and get driven to school. I wonder how that affects the children's outlook. Will the ones who walked to school be more likely to walk or cycle to work, for the sake of the environment? Will the one used to driving decide to buy a small car and "only" one new 'phone a year, for the sake of the environment? I really don't know.

I don't think we should all strive to be poor, but at the moment wealth seems to come with some unfortunate habits.
Well said. I my experience an only child is often selfish because it never had to share with siblings, and also if it has everything handed to he/she, they usually don't amount to anything, no matter how much education, because they rarely learn how to work.

Around here very few families are bigger than 1 or 2 kids. However since the the modern family is often like a stairway, there are sometimes a lot of steps.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e
Just a hunch, not that I trust anyone on the internet as I am just a 12 year old girl's artificial intelligence program...
Wow! that does explain a lot of things, such as why your posts rarely make sense. Maybe somebody need to report this AI bot to LQ Also software can't have kids...only child processes
 
Old 09-16-2019, 11:06 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
This idea is similar to circular reasoning. Cause from other side capitalism also seems like anarchism(with money can do whatever). I cannot comment how exactly it was executed because wasn't alive at those times, nor am i expert in history, but many people who lived in those times claim it was not actual communism or socialism but changed versions of those definitions to fit those in power and contained elements of capitalism aswell, it is also reflected in studies.... -_-
I have a friend who frequently comments on the dangers of "not real socialism," arguing that attempts at "real" socialism always decay into "not real" socialism, complete with poverty and oppression for all but the ruling class. A few months back he pointed me to an article about the merits of capitalism - which, according to the author, people would accept more readily if it wasn't for the problems caused by, well, not-real-capitalism.

I think I'll go play horseshoes.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 11:35 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Just a hunch, not that I trust anyone on the internet as I am just a 12 year old girl's artificial intelligence program...
What is this obsession with newborns? New 'hit' after 21.12.2012.? But that would make it 6-7 year boy|girl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastychomper View Post
{...}I don't think we should all strive to be poor, but at the moment wealth seems to come with some unfortunate habits.
Well..i know both citylife and farmlife but eating dirt cookies and drinking puddle water is not solution aswell. :|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastychomper View Post
I have a friend who frequently comments on the dangers of "not real socialism," arguing that attempts at "real" socialism always decay into "not real" socialism, complete with poverty and oppression for all but the ruling class. A few months back he pointed me to an article about the merits of capitalism - which, according to the author, people would accept more readily if it wasn't for the problems caused by, well, not-real-capitalism.{...}
But it is mostly true. As i wrote i am not yet qualified myself to be expert but i come from one of those post soviet union system countries so those people who lived before me are alive and do tell stories and while it was "fun"(any system gives experience) those countries that didn't have soviet union have it better atm. In Germany for example they change cars even after minor car accident while we have to either buy used from them or work very hard to get new. Same for other spheres. Try watching documentaries.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 11:54 AM   #88
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Will the "real capitalism" please stand up...?

It's really odd how giving 99% of the wealth to super rich aristocrats and billionaires doesn't work out so well for the rest of us...

not/real? Who's it not working for either way?

Economic decline/boom? For whom...?

Brexit? Someone will gain - not you nor I, but someone with already accumulated wealth, who has "offshored" and "invested" much of it [well out of the reach of HMRC]. Some of them might be involved in "leave" campaigns or hiding in the shadows bankrolling things, steering things to their benefit.

All of capitalism is still based on "trickle down economics". That's pretty much the reality of it.

It's for you to know your place and aspire to get there, not to try to change it...
 
Old 09-16-2019, 01:07 PM   #89
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Births by noon today, 193,700! https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

They say with capitalism "it's better to have, then to not have?" Most of that being rubbish plus started* from greed, war and slavery,,, just like today.

Pastychomper happen to have link to that article? And, hopefully you'll make a few circles around that post before ringing straight down when you throw.
 
Old 09-16-2019, 10:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Dogpatch: obviously started as a kid, where does it say a few weeks ago?
Just making light of your silly analogy. A penny doubled daily will amount to $43,980,465,111.03 in just 42 days. 2^n-1

Of course, population growth is never a neat mathematical progression. Even simple bacteria don't multiply like that.

Overpopulation is a myth.
 
  


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