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removed001 08-28-2019 09:20 AM

Ha ha, GIMP's name is wrong and insulting?
 
Really,

this sort of political correctness s...s!

https://getglimpse.app/about/#what-i...-the-gimp-name

One day we will sit on our sunset chairs telling our children's children what it was like when men/speech was really free!

People are totally going mad and crazy to the bone!

I for myself will never use the GLIMPSE.

Long live The GIMP!

jsbjsb001 08-28-2019 09:42 AM

I was thinking it could mean something else, but I'm sure there's a rule that say's I can't elaborate...

Hint: what did your parents do to bring you into this world - what I thinking is related. That's all I'll say...

:jawa:

Timothy Miller 08-28-2019 09:53 AM

I hate overly politically correct ninnies. I wouldn't use glimpse even if it was made technically superior to the GIMP for that reason alone. VIVA LA GIMP!!

snowday 08-28-2019 10:21 AM

An estimated 10-15% of the population has some type of disability. And nearly 100% of us have a friend, family member, or co-worker with a disability. I think the Linux community should be open and welcoming to people of all abilities. In fact I would argue that the diversity of our community is its strength. Open source projects have the power to attract and serve users who might feel unsupported by Apple and Microsoft.

@Timothy Miller as a moderator you are in a position of power and responsibility. Is "I hate (group of people)" really what LinuxQuestions is all about?

Timothy Miller 08-28-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowpine (Post 6030600)
An estimated 10-15% of the population has some type of disability. And nearly 100% of us have a friend, family member, or co-worker with a disability. I think the Linux community should be open and welcoming to people of all abilities. In fact I would argue that the diversity of our community is its strength. Open source projects have the power to attract and serve users who might feel unsupported by Apple and Microsoft.

@Timothy Miller as a moderator you are in a position of power and responsibility. Is "I hate (group of people)" really what LinuxQuestions is all about?

We all have personal opinions as well. This is my personal opinion of people who take offense at EVERY LITTLE THING no matter WHAT it is and expect EVERYONE to do what they want because "that offends me". People taking offense at EVERYTHING offends me.

hazel 08-28-2019 10:37 AM

They have a code of conduct too! Snowflakes!

jsbjsb001 08-28-2019 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 6030611)
They have a code of conduct too! Snowflakes!

That offends me :p

Sefyir 08-28-2019 10:58 AM

Without being aware of this before, this is my logical take

Quote:

gimp
Usually Disparaging and Offensive. a term used to refer to a person who limps or is lame.
Quote:

In some countries it is considered a slur against disabled people
If there was a widely popular program installed on most distro's called retard, image manipulator program, it'd be fine?

In language A, gimp has no offensive basis but retard does
In language B, gimp has offensive basis but retard doesn't

I could further argue naming a program with any word that would break the following rule would count too, as long as that same word was not offensive in another language
Quote:

Do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, hostile or insulting.

snowday 08-28-2019 11:00 AM

@Timothy Miller you are making a "straw man" argument. Nobody in this discussion is "taking offense at every little thing" and nobody is "expecting everyone to do what they want." Forking an open source project is about giving people more choices, not censoring or restricting anybody's freedom.

Linux has less than 5% of the desktop market, and people with disabilities are 10-15% of the population, so to my way of thinking, friendly outreach to the disability community seems like a great way to attract new users. If word gets out about "Glimpse, a new open source project that is welcoming and inclusive of people disabilities," and we get some new users because of it, then I see that as a 'win.'

It seems like this discussion thread exists primarily to mock disability advocates ("Ha ha"), and I am simply raising a puzzled eyebrow at that, because generally we are not a hateful community, in my 10 years experience on this forum. If you really want to make a difference in the world, "punch up" toward people in power, don't "punch down" at disabled people and their allies.

A friendly reminder that any one of us could become disabled at any time, whether due to accident, illness, or aging.

Timothy Miller 08-28-2019 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowpine (Post 6030619)
@Timothy Miller you are making a "straw man" argument. Nobody in this discussion is "taking offense at every little thing" and nobody is "expecting everyone to do what they want." Forking an open source project is about giving people more choices, not censoring or restricting anybody's freedom.

Linux has less than 5% of the desktop market, and people with disabilities are 10-15% of the population, so to my way of thinking, friendly outreach to the disability community seems like a great way to attract new users. If word gets out about "Glimpse, a new open source project that is welcoming and inclusive of people disabilities," and we get some new users because of it, then I see that as a 'win.'

It seems like this discussion thread exists primarily to mock disability advocates ("Ha ha"), and I am simply raising a puzzled eyebrow at that, because generally we are not a hateful community, in my 10 years experience on this forum. If you really want to make a difference in the world, "punch up" toward people in power, don't "punch down" at disabled people and their allies.

A friendly reminder that any one of us could become disabled at any time, whether due to accident, illness, or aging.

You see it your way, I see it as a bunch of overly sensitive people whining about their offended by everything and it's brother and forking it to make it so it doesn't offend them. I don't wish them ill, but I'd never touch the program. If GIMP goes away I'll use darktable or something else rather than switch to something made by super uber-pc "oh, you can't say anything that's in any way negative in any language on any planet because that offends me" people. My opinion.

hazel 08-28-2019 11:18 AM

It would be very interesting (and informative) to see what physically disabled Linux users make of the Gimp. If they are offended by the name, then that would be a good argument for changing it. But I find it hard to take seriously the kind of people who always seem to be offended on behalf of someone else.

jsbjsb001 08-28-2019 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 (Post 6030581)
I was thinking it could mean something else, but I'm sure there's a rule that say's I can't elaborate...

Hint: what did your parents do to bring you into this world - what I thinking is related. That's all I'll say...

:jawa:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 (Post 6030613)
That offends me :p

Upon reading the link in OP again, it seems I was thinking right...

Anyway, "snort" described as "Snort is an open-source, free and lightweight network intrusion detection system (NIDS)" on it's website. Now does this mean I'm calling you a pig? Bear in mind Snort's website has a picture of a pig on it. Not a very flattering term... try calling a cop that. That doesn't mean you like them - in fact quite the opposite. I remember the last place I lived at, one of the neighbour's wifi AP's was called "187_AK47", you know what "187" means right? Anyways, change "NIDS" above to "AIDS", does this mean you're making fun of people who have AIDS, as in the disease? No, it's just a piece of software aptly named for the purpose it serves.

I'm with the OP on this one... political correctness :shrugs:

snowday 08-28-2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 6030628)
It would be very interesting (and informative) to see what physically disabled Linux users make of the Gimp. If they are offended by the name, then that would be a good argument for changing it. But I find it hard to take seriously the kind of people who always seem to be offended on behalf of someone else.

The actor and comedian Geri Jewell (of "Facts of Life" and "Deadwood" fame) uses that word in her career and has discussed the reasons why in interviews. Basically, to summarize my understanding of her take on it, like any other slur (the "n word" for example) it is sometimes okay for members within the community to use it among themselves, but if you're outside of that community, it's best to avoid using that word. And you definitely don't want to play the "they call themselves that, so they have no right to get offended when I call them that" card! ;)

hazel 08-28-2019 12:45 PM

There was a rather similar brouhaha in London recently concerning the supporters of a football club called Tottenham Hotspur (Spurs). A lot of Jews live around Tottenham and Spurs was always seen as their club. As a result, it attracted a lot of nasty antisemitic chanting from visiting fans. The Spurs fans hit back by appropriating the word Yid or Yiddo which their opponents were using and wearing it as a badge of honour, despite the fact that many of them weren't actually Jewish. They were then accused of using an antisemitic word.

Here it's not so much a case of "They call themselves that, so they have no right to get offended when I call them that" but of "We call ourselves that, so people who aren't even Jewish have no right to get offended when we do so."

I would be very offended if anyone called me a Yid, but I can't summon up any great moral indignation about people who choose to apply that name to themselves.

273 08-28-2019 01:02 PM

Isn't this just a case of an english word having many meanings and interpretations but the project itself just having a tongue-in-cheek meaning?
I would wager that were I to ask anyone I know under the age of 60 what "a gimp" is I would be told that it is rude.

snowday 08-28-2019 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 6030672)
Isn't this just a case of an english word having many meanings and interpretations but the project itself just having a tongue-in-cheek meaning?
I would wager that were I to ask anyone I know under the age of 60 what "a gimp" is I would be told that it is rude.

You are correct to point out that many slur words also have "innocent" usage. For example the literal meaning of "f*gg*t" is "a bundle of sticks."

Given that the Quentin Tarantino film "Pulp Fiction" came out in 1994, and the GNU Image Project was started in 1995 by college students, I'd bet you anything the name is a tongue-in-cheek reference to that movie's infamous "basement scene." For those of you unfamiliar with Tarantino's movies, they deliberately push the envelope of good taste. GIMP was a marginally clever "ha ha, I get the reference" name for a college student's pet project in 1995, but the joke is getting old in 2019.

scasey 08-28-2019 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 6030672)
Isn't this just a case of an english word having many meanings and interpretations but the project itself just having a tongue-in-cheek meaning?
I would wager that were I to ask anyone I know under the age of 60 what "a gimp" is I would be told that it is rude.

People over 60 would not think it rude?

Frankly, the double meaning never occurred to me. GNU Image Project makes sense to me.

ondoho 08-28-2019 02:48 PM

I think GNOME is next.
And anyhow, RMS started it all - what's his problem with gnus?

removed001 08-28-2019 02:57 PM

Quote:

...it is sometimes okay for members within the community to use it among themselves, but if you're outside of that community, it's best to avoid using that word...
Ha ha. A shot right into your own foot!

Nobody of us (I assume) is using such words within any community and we also

Quote:

don't "punch down" at disabled people and their allies
by using the word and the program GIMP.

It's the name of a program! Nothing more, nothing less!

Just don't let stupid play-ground kiddies and/or some ugly people with terrible behaviour take over to rule the naming of GNU/Linux and its programs!

It's the name of a program for almost 25 years now.

I dare to say people taking offense of the programs name GIMP are just too stupid for GNU/Linux - as they just don't understand what it really means!

jefro 08-28-2019 03:09 PM

Moved to General.

snowday 08-28-2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSH (Post 6030724)
Ha ha. A shot right into your own foot!

Nobody of us (I assume) is using such words within any community and we also

by using the word and the program GIMP.

It's the name of a program! Nothing more, nothing less!

Just don't let stupid play-ground kiddies and/or some ugly people with terrible behaviour take over to rule the naming of GNU/Linux and its programs!

It's the name of a program for almost 25 years now.

I dare to say people taking offense of the programs name GIMP are just too stupid for GNU/Linux - as they just don't understand what it really means!

You bring up a good point: People with disabilities are often called "stupid" or "ugly." It is a real thing that happens every day. I don't have all the answers, but it is good to have the conversation. Thank you for starting this discussion. :)

Germany_chris 08-28-2019 04:53 PM

I still don't get the brouhaha over this..the folks asked The GIMP folks to change the name so they forked it and changed the name that's exactly what you're supposed to do, solve the perceived problem.

If Lunduke is right they also contributing both code and money to The GIMP

Firerat 08-28-2019 06:52 PM

I think I miss upderstood the offence taken
I saw Pulp Fiction, so gimp makes me think of something else

So this new name Glimpse, is that like a voyurism thing?

fido_dogstoyevsky 08-28-2019 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSH (Post 6030570)
Really,

this sort of political correctness s...s!

https://getglimpse.app/about/#what-i...-the-gimp-name...Long live The GIMP!

I had given up hope* of finding a fork of "the gimp" and stopped looking - now I should have an equivalent alternative (as soon as they fix some other problems) that I can use. I'll continue looking for alternatives, but will be keeping an eye on this one.

They are forking for the wrong reason, but I don't find them any worse than the current project developers.


*Been looking for a replacement for usability reasons as well as the name. Politically correct or not, I found that the name WAS a problem in trying to get it adopted at work.

Myk267 08-28-2019 07:41 PM

Seems like a positive step to me.

frankbell 08-28-2019 08:25 PM

When I think of other meanings for "gimp," I always think of the movie, Pulp Fiction (full disclosure: I've never seen it and have no desire to do so). I've never thought of persons with disabilities. Of course, that may say more about me . . . .

Given that the full name of the GIMP is the Gnu Image Manipulation Program and "GIMP" is merely an acronym, I think this is a case of someone looking for a reason to be outraged, and any reason will do. (And, if Lunduke is involved, as someone implied, add several grains of salt, as Lunduke, smart and witty as he is, is a professional provocateur.)

As an aside, I'm old. What today is called "political correctness" in my day, you young whippersnappers, was called "courtesy." It was considered "courteous" not to make offensive remarks, especially not in the presence of those likely to be the targets of those remarks. Grump, grump, grump.

Just my two cents.

ondoho 08-29-2019 02:09 AM

^ I take offense at your ageism!
/s

I wonder what actual disabled people (am I allowed to say it like that? Maybe I should say "differently-abled"?) have to say about it.
One can speak up for someone else's sensitivities only to a certain extent.

Aside:
Would you say that many Monty Python sketches are homophobic (careful, trick question)?

Lysander666 08-29-2019 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowpine (Post 6030600)

@Timothy Miller as a moderator you are in a position of power and responsibility. Is "I hate (group of people)" really what LinuxQuestions is all about?

"In order to tell the truth you have to risk offending someone" - Jordan Peterson

Unfortunately this is a symptom of our politically correct times, and the less credence given to such self-serving idiocy the better.

To make it clear, the Glimpse devs are not saying that the name GIMP is wrong and insulting, they're saying it could be. Has anyone ever complained that they've felt insulted by the name? If not, forking GIMP comes across just as a attention-whoring from the Glimpse dev[s] and if someone has complained, they should get over it. As Steve Hughes said, "nothing happens when you get offended - you're an adult, deal with it". We shouldn't have to restructure everything we say on the off-chance that an extremely small minority of people will get 'offended'. If I were disabled [touch wood], would I care that there was a piece of software out there called GIMP whose letters stand for nothing whatsoever to do with being disabled? No, probably not.

To this effect I'm proposing a backcronym for Glimpse - GIMP Locum Indignation-Masking Program, Snowflake Edition

Pastychomper 08-29-2019 04:18 AM

A few years ago Ken Starks made a similar decision in his Helios/Reglue project. (They donate Linux boxen to Texan kids who need them, and used to have an interesting blog. Maybe they still do.) A lot of the kids he worked with were in groups that got called "gimp" and he didn't want them to see that word on the menu of their new computers, so he included it under a different name in their re-spun distro.

I was surprised, but thought that if such an outspoken character was willing to change the name to avoid offence then maybe it was worth changing. It doesn't have the same connotations for me so I'll use whichever project seems best at the job.

cynwulf 08-29-2019 04:29 AM

Quote:

...stories about the GNU Image Manipulation Program not being taken seriously as an option by bosses or colleagues in professional settings.
"Professionalism" strikes again...

And look no futher:
Quote:

Where is the Glimpse code of conduct?

You will find it on this page. Our code of conduct is based on the contributor covenant and will be developed and amended over time as the need arises.
This has been ejected from the same bowels as the Linux and FreeBSD CoC crap and is based on the work of the same "transgender"/"feminist" "activists", who seek to push their agenda at every given opportunity.

More nonsense from the professionally offended, in their never ending quest to eliminate all possible sources of offence. Not even worth the time and consideration.

Lysander666 08-29-2019 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 6030927)
This has been ejected from the same bowels as the Linux and FreeBSD CoC crap and is based on the work of the same "transgender"/"feminist" "activists", who seek to push their agenda at every given opportunity.

Indeed, because this is not about the cause of bettering the functionality of image programs. Neither is it about inventing a program that's as good as GIMP, because to do so is entirely unnecessary. It's hardly a surprise that the Glimpse dev has a gay flag icon on Github [because stating your sexual preference has everything to do with your ability to code]. It's pure egoism, as so many of these cases are. I wouldn't be surprised, just as with Linux Counter, if it ends up being used as a platform for gay/trans rights activism.

Samsonite2010 08-29-2019 04:59 AM

When I was a graduate, I wrote an asset manager application & database and had to give it a 6 character project code, so I called it "ASSMAN". This was amusing to some and I felt a bit naughty, but it was technically the most appropriate code, taking the first syllable of each word and everyone knew what it was. You could see people with a little smile when they were assigned a "ASSMAN-0000X" ticket. The only warning was from the managing partner who said "Just don't give it a silly icon."

fido_dogstoyevsky 08-29-2019 05:08 AM

Quote:

...stories about the GNU Image Manipulation Program not being taken seriously as an option by bosses or colleagues in professional settings.
Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 6030927)
"Professionalism" strikes again...

Had personal experience of this. People* (including bean counters) preferred just buying photoshop so as to look more "professional" because of the name. About half the people resisting it did so because of the offence factor, the rest because it sounded too childish. It actually created a hurdle for FLOSS in general. Even renaming it "The G.I.M.P." would have made a difference.


*Not everybody, but enough.

Lysander666 08-29-2019 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky (Post 6030939)
Had personal experience of this. People* (including bean counters) preferred just buying photoshop so as to look more "professional" because of the name. About half the people resisting it did so because of the offence factor, the rest because it sounded too childish. It actually created a hurdle for FLOSS in general. Even renaming it "The G.I.M.P." would have made a difference.

I would wager that this was not only because of the name GIMP - especially seeing as Gimpshop exists - but that Photoshop has considerable standing as an image manipulation program and is generally looked at as the very best in its category. If something were to go wrong with the production process or the product be not up to scratch or there to be compatibility issues for the client, the blame could always be put on the fact that the company used free software. It's actually far safer in the long run to go with Photoshop. Very few pieces of free software make it big outside of the Linuxsphere anyway [save for things like Firefox, Thunderbird, Audacity etc].

For instance, I would never recommend a company use Libre Office Writer if the company generates complex documentation which relies on multiple tables, footnotes, diagrams etc - there are too many compatibility issues with MS Word. If I were the one making software choices, I would buy a license for MS Office.

fido_dogstoyevsky 08-29-2019 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 6030942)
I would wager that this was not only because of the name GIMP - especially seeing as Gimpshop exists - but that Photoshop has considerable standing as an image manipulation program and is generally looked at as the very best in its category...

The need was for minor editing of images (about 75% photos, 25% original art) for use in lectures or notes. Photoshop was massive overkill, ms-paint was not quite adequate. Gimp was free and did more than was required (and, from faulty memory, Gimpshop didn't exist yet).

I am biased, bisted and twitter because the money misspent could have trebled the number of computers in my area.

Lysander666 08-29-2019 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky (Post 6030944)
The need was for minor editing of images (about 75% photos, 25% original art) for use in lectures or notes. Photoshop was massive overkill, ms-paint was not quite adequate. Gimp was free and did more than was required (and, from faulty memory, Gimpshop didn't exist yet).

I am biased, bisted and twitter because the money misspent could have trebled the number of computers in my area.

Was this at a university? If so, that's kind of sad. I understand your angst regarding the financial side of things too.

hazel 08-29-2019 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowpine (Post 6030683)
You are correct to point out that many slur words also have "innocent" usage. For example the literal meaning of "f*gg*t" is "a bundle of sticks."

It's also a traditional English dish halfway between a meatball and a skinless sausage. I heard once about someone who had his FB account frozen after he wrote a post praising this dish.

DavidMcCann 08-29-2019 11:08 AM

What annoys me is not just the political correctness, but the cultural chauvinism. Just because the USians use words in particular senses, the rest of us are told we mustn't mention GIMP, faggots, cocks, or asses.

hazel 08-29-2019 11:21 AM

I was always amused by a line in the modern carol "The Little Drummer Boy" in which "The ox and lamb beat time" as the boy plays his drum. I have never seen a manger scene with a lamb in it, but ox and ass are traditional.

Firerat 08-29-2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMcCann (Post 6031036)
What annoys me is not just the political correctness, but the cultural chauvinism. Just because the USians use words in particular senses, the rest of us are told we mustn't mention GIMP, faggots, cocks, or asses.

small bundles of sticks, could get splinters

turf those male chickens.

are they donkeyhorse?
no they are horsedonkeys !
are you sure?
yeah, well.. 50%

fido_dogstoyevsky 08-29-2019 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 6030952)
Was this at a university? If so, that's kind of sad. I understand your angst regarding the financial side of things too.

It was. I was familiar with requirements, one of my responsibilities was helping set up staff PCs (Macs were supported by another team). Having only two computers for student use in my primary domain (chemistry lab) and seeing money spent on inappropriate software was particularly galling.

Back to Gimp/Glimpse, I've been looking for a FLOSS alternative for the gimp for a while now and unfortunately gimp is still the best for my use case (Krita isn't there yet, and it's not trying to be a photo editor anyway). I'm hoping that this fork will do something about my problems with gimp; but I won't be trying it until (if) they come up with a fix and a Linux version becomes available - Flatpak and Appimage won't do.

As far as the Gimp/Glimpse developers' attitudes are concerned, I find them equally distasteful, but for now I need their software.

Firerat 08-29-2019 06:18 PM

could you get away with renaming the binary and launching with a shell wrapper/alias disabling the splash screen?

gimp -s

?

frankbell 08-29-2019 08:54 PM

Pastychomper, thanks for that tidbit. I have not encountered the use of the word "gimp" as a slur, and it sheds light to know that others have.

Persons who are transgender or female or disabled or [insert classification] often do have legitimate grievances that should not be dismissed simply because one has not experienced or witnessed them first-hand. My girlfriend broke her hip last year (the cat sneaked up behind her and she tripped backwards over it). I can attest that, after assisting someone in a wheelchair for even a few weeks, anyone will have a better understanding of the complaints of those with disabilities.

I become skeptical, though, when persons seize upon outrage on behalf of others. Note that I said "skeptical," not "dismissive."

cynwulf 08-30-2019 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 6030935)
I wouldn't be surprised, just as with Linux Counter, if it ends up being used as a platform for gay/trans rights activism.

Oh but it is...

https://github.com/orgs/glimpse-editor/people

This "fork" deserves zero attention/exposure.

If someone wants to fork gimp for any reason, they are free to do so.

I can't imagine that it would be that difficult to remove the logos and rename the programme and then just build from source / build a package as usual.

Lysander666 08-30-2019 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell (Post 6031181)
Persons who are transgender or female or disabled or [insert classification] often do have legitimate grievances that should not be dismissed simply because one has not experienced or witnessed them first-hand.

I agree about people who are disabled, pretty much unequivocally. With regards to trans people, a lot of the time I think the causes of their grievances are misunderstood. What doesn't help them is the media and medical profession supporting their causes carte blanche and possibly causing long-term damage which is largely irreversible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell (Post 6031181)
I become skeptical, though, when persons seize upon outrage on behalf of others.

This is a classic trait of the radical left, well discussed in Kaczynski's paper "Industrial Society and its Future". He argues that such people pick a social issue, normally an easy one to get support for, and then champion that issue even though they do not belong to any oppressed group, often coming from a comfortable middle class background when the 'oppressed' group cares little anyway. Such issues are adopted purely to build up the profile of the [often aggressive] protester who takes such collectivist action out of little more than personal insecurity, inferiority and the resultant frustrated need for power: "if our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to invent problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss".

I think remaining skeptical of such things is very, very healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 6031239)

Ah so she's a trans furry. Why am I not utterly shocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky (Post 6031129)
As far as the Gimp/Glimpse developers' attitudes are concerned, I find them equally distasteful, but for now I need their software.

Well indeed. Everybody knows Axl Rose is a Grade A idiot, but he's made some great music over time.

ondoho 08-30-2019 05:56 AM

Just for the record:
It's OK for me to rename GIMP to Glimpse.
I even understand the reasoning. I agree.

But I get sceptical when they say "...and fix long-standing bugs". Why not contribute to the original project instead (rhetorical Q, don't answer)?
And a little more sceptical at "experiment with other design directions".
And I get even more sceptical when there's a link to that person that likes to troll people on twitter and github, as proven about a year ago in some other thread here on LQ... ugh, let's not go there anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 6031239)

I wasn't looking for something like this. Really.
But it seems the pessimists in this thread were right...

Please help narrow-minded me understand one thing: If someone says they're a "transgender gal", that means they started out as a boy, right?

Also, why is it people have to constantly float some personal attributes like they were scout badges?
And why is it that you never see "I am a straight white male with no disabilities to speak of"???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 6031247)
This is a classic trait of the radical left, well discussed in Kaczynski's paper "Industrial Society and its Future". He argues that such people pick a social issue, normally an easy one to get support for, and then champion that issue even though they do not belong to any oppressed group, often coming from a comfortable middle class background when the 'oppressed' group cares little anyway. Such issues are adopted purely to build up the profile of the [often aggressive] protester who takes such collectivist action out of little more than personal insecurity, inferiority and the resultant frustrated need for power: "if our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to invent problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss".

Well written, but I don't think this is limited to "the radical left" at all. "Populism" rather comes to mind.

system001 08-30-2019 06:19 AM

the [removed] moron that wrote that article has no business writing if IT can understand GIMP being all caps does not represent a single word, so invalidates IT's point. on another note morons that think political correctness comes from the left stop lying. you full well know it's from the center to the right. people like Lysander666 are the psychos if they believe what they posted even for a second.

Lysander666 08-30-2019 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6031292)
I wasn't looking for something like this. Really.
But it seems the pessimists in this thread were right...

Well, because us pessimists, in this instance anyway, weren't being pessimists but realists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6031292)
Please help narrow-minded me understand one thing: If someone says they're a "transgender gal", that means they started out as a boy, right?

You are not being narrow-minded, you are rightly questioning something which your brain knows is not biologically natural [i.e. cutting off parts of one's body to change sex]. Someone is a transgender girl when they were born male but come to identify as female. This is not the same as being transsexual - transsexual is when they have had an operation to change their genitalia or other parts of their body to that of the sex with which they identify.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6031292)
Also, why is it people have to constantly float some personal attributes like they were scout badges?

Because they are using the software as a platform to promote their real agenda, which, in this case, is gay/trans activism. As has already been shown in this thread, forking GIMP is unnecessary and, to a large extent, pointless and this 'issue' has come about at the same time when LGBT issues are at the forefront of the media. That's no coincidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6031292)
And why is it that you never see "I am a straight white male with no disabilities to speak of"???

Because it's entirely irrelevant to coding. Just as stating one is gay/trans/furry/whatever is entirely irrelevant to coding/promoting a software fork unless the real reason behind creating and/or promoting that fork is activism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6031292)
Well written, but I don't think this is limited to "the radical left" at all. "Populism" rather comes to mind.

The key word is 'limited'. But I don't know enough about populism to comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by system001 (Post 6031301)
on another note morons that think political correctness comes from the left stop lying. you full well know it's from the center to the right. people like Lysander666 are the psychos if they believe what they posted even for a second.

You are not the first or last person, by a large extent, to call me a 'psycho'.

But it's important that a distinction is made here. When talking about 'leftist' I am purely using Kaczynski's terminology in which he uses it as a catch-all for the radical left. This is not the same as the left of the 19th/early-mid 20th centuries. It relates to the aggressive activist leftist movements of the late-20th century and in this case, beyond. Kaczynski does note that defining the word 'leftist' in this context is not without holes and weaknesses, and that demarkating the borders of definition is no straightforward task. If you want to know more, read the previously-cited paper, paragraphs 227-232, though I recommend reading the whole thing.

cynwulf 08-30-2019 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander666 (Post 6031247)
This is a classic trait of the radical left, well discussed in Kaczynski's paper "Industrial Society and its Future". He argues that such people pick a social issue, normally an easy one to get support for, and then champion that issue even though they do not belong to any oppressed group, often coming from a comfortable middle class background when the 'oppressed' group cares little anyway. Such issues are adopted purely to build up the profile of the [often aggressive] protester who takes such collectivist action out of little more than personal insecurity, inferiority and the resultant frustrated need for power: "if our society had no social problems at all, the leftists would have to invent problems in order to provide themselves with an excuse for making a fuss".

I find the Unabomber's assessment of "radical left" and "leftists" to be a bit off... it comes squarely from the popular US perspective of the left as spoken by the "right" - who are the establishment - i.e. the kind of nonsense commonly spouted by individuals like Trump - where "left" is seen a a slur which can be directed at the Democrats or any other target (who are anything but left), at any/every opportunity, for political point scoring.

The Unabomber was a big influence for Anders Behring Breivik and it's easy to see why...

jsbjsb001 08-30-2019 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 6031316)
I find the Unabomber's assessment of "radical left" and "leftists" to be a bit off... it comes squarely from the popular US perspective of the left as spoken by the "right" - who are the establishment - i.e. the kind of nonsense commonly spouted by individuals like Trump - where "left" is seen a a slur which can be directed at the Democrats or any other target (who are anything but left), at any/every opportunity, for political point scoring.

The Unabomber was a big influence for Anders Behring Breivik and it's easy to see why...

^ The truth, thank you cynwulf, could not have said it better, right on! Or to use British phrasing: bang on! ;)

Also, people like Trump seem to confuse "left" with "Socialism". As in: proper health care and such for the poor, Socialist state tomorrow!

But it can all fixed with Capitalism, can't it? :rolleyes:


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