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Old 06-13-2005, 03:35 PM   #76
readsomestuff
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Quote:
Its all fake anyway... We live inside the Matrix. The machines tell us what to do.
Are these machines telling you what to do right now? Where are these machines? Do you have any proof of this whatsoever? If this is the case why do you care so much? Maybe these machines will let you go watch those videos first and read the posts, then maybe come back and show that you know about some of these issues.

Quote:
Now I'm not saying that something like this is not feasible. Sure their have been things hidden from the public before but in this case their are just too many questions to stamp this as a "massive coverup".
Well, if the machines control you, it should be easy to explain shouldn't it?

Quote:
The reason this propoganda works is because you are bombarded with so much information, so fast, that you don't sit there and break down each bit.
I agree, Alex Jones videos and most information based videos throw alot of information at you at once. This doesn't stop you from rewinding or playing it again at some point and picking up the points you missed the first few times around. I encourage you do do this and go research the information for yourself.

Yes, we do get quite a bit of information thrown at us constantly. Much of the corporate news is fluff and disinformation used to distract you, discredit real news, and basically keep your brain caged up in its comfy little shell.

If you are watching corporate media you should realize that those groups are owned and operated by HUGE multinational corporations that are obligated to return a profit for their shareholders (many of whom profit from war and militarization). That seems like a confilct of interests to me.

If you go searching around the web for the information some of us are talking about in this thread you will find endless resources.

War Is A Racket
By Major General Smedley Butler
* Awarded two congressional medals of honor
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/war_...ket_033103.htm

Quote:
In 2004, Bagdikian's revised and expanded book, The New Media Monopoly, shows that only 5 huge corporations -- Time Warner, Disney, Murdoch's News Corporation, Bertelsmann of Germany, and Viacom (formerly CBS) -- now control most of the media industry in the U.S. General Electric's NBC is a close sixth.
http://www.corporations.org/media

More interesting links:

"The United States military budget is larger than the military budgets of the next twenty biggest spenders combined, and six times larger than China's, which places second."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...get_Comparison

Rep. Sensenbrenner Gets Angry, Abruptly Ends Hearing (see both streaming videos)
http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/6/10/54149/5115

Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On Dyncorp Sex Rings, Missing Pentagon Trillions & 9/11 Wargames
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...nneygrills.htm

http://oldamericancentury.org/images/budget_pie.gif
http://oldamericancentury.org/images...d2004Top25.gif
http://oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

American Dictators: Documenting the Staged Election of 2004 (2004)
http://www.archive.org/details/AmericanDictators

911: the Road to Tyranny (2002)
http://www.archive.org/details/911theRoadtoTyranny

For those of you not willing to wake up and stand up for freedom of all people around the world... This is only a dream, you can go back to sleep now.

Last edited by readsomestuff; 06-13-2005 at 03:40 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 05:11 PM   #77
rksprst
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Yea, I don't want this closed too... even though I've felt the urge to flame ALOT.. i didnt and wont. Mara, thanks for giving a warning, and not closing the thread... It's very interesting to hear the opposing side, also sheds some light on human nature

So, you guys, I'd still like to see your theory on the motive behind the conspiracy. I've asked and you gave me a link, and more info. You keep giving me info. Well, there's plenty of other info that says that it was al-qaeda who did it.

What I'd like is a motive, al-qaeda has a motive, and I'd like to know the motive behind this conspiracy in your own words not by giving me a link. I'm sure you can summarize the motive for the conspiracy in a very short paragraph. So please, I want to hear the motive that Bush has. Don't give me quotes of what Bush said. Tell me his motive, in your own words.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 05:15 PM   #78
gbhil
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaBlade
Oops...screwed the BBcode. Look now. :P
I'm a sheep because I don't believe a missile or mystery bomber hit the pentagon, when I was there and saw the plane.
Amazing logic.
What about the other 400+ people who were interviewed along with myself in the conference room of a popular Arlington, Va. hotel, that also saw a large commercial airplane belly flop into the pentagon?
What about the many people treated at George Washington University Hospital for exposure to kerosene based jet fuel, not high performance military grade fuel used in fighters?
What about the watch officer who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, was close enough to lose his right leg at the knee and his left foot, and says it was a jumbo-jet?
Are we all sheep?


Of course in Norway you have a much better view of the events that thousands saw in person, and millions saw via television here in the US.
Seems to me, that anyone who wasn't an eyewitness and believes random conspiracy nonsense may be more of a sheep.

I've said my fill. I KNOW what happened in Virginia. I was there. You and your lot are dead wrong.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 06:12 PM   #79
Woken_Sheep
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why are you so affraid to watch the films? i know you havent otherwise you would know they are all based on fact not fiction. and are backed up by either actual live video evidence or documents.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 06:22 PM   #80
readsomestuff
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I've said my fill. I KNOW what happened in Virginia. I was there. You and your lot are dead wrong.
Did you take pictures of the plane you saw hit the pentagon? Do you know of any that I could see for myself? I don't see any proof or resources to support your claims.. all I see is the opposite. I've been looking for it for a long time. Please post resources, I like to go look for myself. Thanks!

"They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them."
- Donald Rumsfeld, Friday, Oct. 12, 2001
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...1_t1012pm.html

"I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten – indeed the word 'terrorized' is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be."
- Donald Rumsfeld, December 24, 2004
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42112

Quote:
So, you guys, I'd still like to see your theory on the motive behind the conspiracy. I've asked and you gave me a link, and more info. You keep giving me info. Well, there's plenty of other info that says that it was al-qaeda who did it.
Do you mean Al CIAda?

al-CIAda
http://www.independent-media.tv/item...nd%20Deception

Frankenstein the CIA created
http://www.guardian.co.uk/yemen/Stor...209260,00.html

The '93 WTC attacks: Al Qaeda/CIA Operatives & The FBI
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/...wtcattacks.htm

CIA's Toy Gone Awry
http://www.worldpress.org/1101binladen_cia.htm

How the CIA created Osama bin Laden
http://100777.com/node/231

"Although "al-Qaeda" is the name of the organization used in popular culture, the organization rarely uses the name to formally refer to itself. The name "al-qaeda" was not self-chosen; it was coined by the United States government based on the name of a computer file of bin Laden's that listed the names of contacts he had made at the MAK in the Bait al-Ansar guesthouse during the late 1980s. While the United States government started using the name Al-Qaeda to refer to the Post-Soviet invasion organization that bin Laden had built in Afghanistan the name itself was never used by bin Laden's followers to refer to themselves until after the September 11th attacks."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

"Throughout the world ... its agents, client states and satellites are on the defensive -- on the moral defensive, the intellectual defensive, and the political and economic defensive. Freedom movements arise and assert themselves. They're doing so on almost every continent populated by man -- in the hills of Afghanistan, in Angola, in Kampuchea, in Central America ... [They are] freedom fighters."
- President Ronald Reagan, March 8, 1985

classic video: http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle2038.htm

I wonder where these missing trillions from the pentagon are going.

For those of you trying to debunk, where are your facts refuting any of this stuff?

rksprst, it's obvious you don't want answers. If you did you would go check out some of the information provided. I suggest you don't take our word for it, but instead, go look for yourself! I think that is what any truthseeker would do.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #81
rksprst
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woken_Sheep
why are you so affraid to watch the films? i know you havent otherwise you would know they are all based on fact not fiction. and are backed up by either actual live video evidence or documents.
He says he is an eyewitness, that is pretty much as much FACT as you can get.
But if you're talking to me, I dont want more facts (you gave plenty already), I still want to see the motive. And I did try to watch the movies, as I have posted earlier. So you can seem I want to hear your view on things. But I'm asking for your view on the motive, so what is it?

I think there is no motive, and this whole conspiracy has no basis. Because if there was I wouldn't have to ask three times to get the motive. Now I'll request again, for the fourth time, what is the motive for the consiracy? I'm seriously very interested in hearing what the motive is for the conspiracy. And again in your own words...

Even if you agree with all the info and facs that you present, you should ask yourself what the motive is
 
Old 06-13-2005, 06:45 PM   #82
Woken_Sheep
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i suppose this guy is a kook in a foil hat too?

Quote:
Former Bush Team Member Says WTC Collapse Likely A Controlled Demolition And 'Inside Job'
Highly recognized former chief economist in Labor Department now doubts official 9/11 story, claiming suspicious facts and evidence cover-up indicate government foul play and possible criminal implications.
June 12, 2005

By Greg Szymanski

A former chief economist in the Labor Department during President Bush's first term now believes the official story about the collapse of the WTC is 'bogus,' saying it is more likely that a controlled demolition destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7.

"If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling," said Morgan Reynolds, Ph.D, a former member of the Bush team who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX.

Reynolds, now a professor emeritus at Texas A&M University, also believes it's 'next to impossible' that 19 Arab Terrorists alone outfoxed the mighty U.S. military, adding the scientific conclusions about the WTC collapse may hold the key to the entire mysterious plot behind 9/11.

"It is hard to exaggerate the importance of a scientific debate over the cause(s) of the collapse of the twin towers and building 7," said Reynolds this week from his offices at Texas A&M. "If the official wisdom on the collapses is wrong, as I believe it is, then policy based on such erroneous engineering analysis is not likely to be correct either. The government's collapse theory is highly vulnerable on its own terms. Only professional demolition appears to account for the full range of facts associated with the collapse of the three buildings.

"More importantly, momentous political and social consequences would follow if impartial observers concluded that professionals imploded the WTC. Meanwhile, the job of scientists, engineers and impartial researchers everywhere is to get the scientific and engineering analysis of 9/11 right."

However, Reynolds said "getting it right in today's security state' remains challenging because he claims explosives and structural experts have been intimidated in their analyses of the collapses of 9/11.

From the beginning, the Bush administration claimed that burning jet fuel caused the collapse of the towers. Although many independent investigators have disagreed, they have been hard pressed to disprove the government theory since most of the evidence was removed by FEMA prior to independent investigation.

Critics claim the Bush administration has tried to cover-up the evidence and the recent 9/11 Commission has failed to address the major evidence contradicting the official version of 9/11.

Some facts demonstrating the flaws in the government jet fuel theory include:

-- Photos showing people walking around in the hole in the North Tower where 10,000 gallons of jet fuel supposedly was burning..

--When the South Tower was hit, most of the North Tower's flames had already vanished, burning for only 16 minutes, making it relatively easy to contain and control without a total collapse.

--The fire did not grow over time, probably because it quickly ran out of fuel and was suffocating, indicating without added explosive devices the firs could have been easily controlled.

--FDNY fire fighters still remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a similar 9/11 gag order.

--Even the flawed 9/11 Commission Report acknowledges that "none of the [fire] chiefs present believed that a total collapse of either tower was possible."


-- Fire had never before caused steel-frame buildings to collapse except for the three buildings on 9/11, nor has fire collapsed any steel high rise since 9/11.

-- The fires, especially in the South Tower and WTC-7, were relatively small.

-- WTC-7 was unharmed by an airplane and had only minor fires on the seventh and twelfth floors of this 47-story steel building yet it collapsed in less than 10 seconds.

-- WTC-5 and WTC-6 had raging fires but did not collapse despite much thinner steel beams.

-- In a PBS documentary, Larry Silverstein, the WTC leaseholder, told the fire department commander on 9/11 about WTC-7 that. "may be the smartest thing to do is pull it," slang for demolish it.

-- It's difficult if not impossible for hydrocarbon fires like those fed by jet fuel (kerosene) to raise the temperature of steel close to melting.

Despite the numerous holes in the government story, the Bush administration has brushed aside or basically ignored any and all critics. Mainstream experts, speaking for the administration, offer a theory essentially arguing that an airplane impact weakened each structure and an intense fire thermally weakened structural components, causing buckling failures while allowing the upper floors to pancake onto the floors below.

One who supports the official account is Thomas Eager, professor of materials engineering and engineering systems at MIT. He argues that the collapse occurred by the extreme heat from the fires, causing the loss of loading-bearing capacity on the structural frame.

Eagar points out the steel in the towers could have collapsed only if heated to the point where it "lost 80 percent of its strength," or around 1,300 degrees Fahrenheit. Critics claim his theory is flawed since the fires did not appear to be intense and widespread enough to reach such high temperatures.

Other experts supporting the official story claim the impact of the airplanes, not the heat, weakened the entire structural system of the towers, but critics contend the beams on floors 94-98 did not appear severely weakened, much less the entire structural system.

Further complicating the matter, hard evidence to fully substantiate either theory since evidence is lacking due to FEMA's quick removal of the structural steel before it could be analyzed. Even though the criminal code requires that crime scene evidence be kept for forensic analysis, FEMA had it destroyed or shipped overseas before a serious investigation could take place.

And even more doubt is cast over why FEMA acted so swiftly since coincidentally officials had arrived the day before the 9/11 attacks at New York's Pier 29 to conduct a war game exercise, named "Tripod II."

Besides FEMA's quick removal of the debris, authorities considered the steel quite valuable as New York City officials had every debris truck tracked on GPS and even fired one truck driver who took an unauthorized lunch break.

In a detailed analysis just released supporting the controlled demolition theory, Reynolds presents a compelling case.


"First, no steel-framed skyscraper, even engulfed in flames hour after hour, had ever collapsed before. Suddenly, three stunning collapses occur within a few city blocks on the same day, two allegedly hit by aircraft, the third not," said Reynolds. "These extraordinary collapses after short-duration minor fires made it all the more important to preserve the evidence, mostly steel girders, to study what had happened.

"On fire intensity, consider this benchmark: A 1991 FEMA report on Philadelphia's Meridian Plaza fire said that the fire was so energetic that 'beams and girders sagged and twisted, but despite this extraordinary exposure, the columns continued to support their loads without obvious damage.' Such an intense fire with consequent sagging and twisting steel beams bears no resemblance to what we observed at the WTC."


After considering both sides of the 9/11 debate and after thoroughly sifting through all the available material, Reynolds concludes the government story regarding all four plane crashes on 9/11 remains highly suspect.

"In fact, the government has failed to produce significant wreckage from any of the four alleged airliners that fateful day. The familiar photo of the Flight 93 crash site in Pennsylvania shows no fuselage, engine or anything recognizable as a plane, just a smoking hole in the ground," said Reynolds. "Photographers reportedly were not allowed near the hole. Neither the FBI nor the National Transportation Safety Board have investigated or produced any report on the alleged airliner crashes."

For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com.

Greg Szymanski
 
Old 06-13-2005, 06:53 PM   #83
rksprst
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I have another question, are the terrorist bombings in Madrid also part of some conspiracy? Or are those real terrorists?

Check this out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3503676.stm
"A statement attributed to al-Qaeda claiming responsibility emerged soon after it was revealed that an Arabic tape had been found in a suspect van."

Now, since according to your links al-qaeda are CIA assents, please tell me what the motive was in attacking Spain (if in fact they are CIA assets)?

Now, since the US invaded Iraq and al-qaeda are CIA assets, why would the CIA attack America itself?
Check this out: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...372CDB9B65.htm
"A group claiming al-Qaeda links said it was behind resistance operations targeting US-led occupation forces in Iraq"
""I swear by God no one from his (Saddam Hussein) followers carried out any jihad operations like he claims," said the voice on the tape.
"They (attacks) are a result of our brothers in jihad," said the man. "
What does the US gain by making its CIA asset, al-qaeda preform jihad operations?

Now, if al-qaeda are CIA assets, then of course they would be ordered to do this by the government.
Why would the government decide to order attaacks on itself and later denounce it?
Check this out: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...5B22ACA261.htm
"The United States has denounced Aljazeera�s airing of a new al-Qaeda audiotape, which calls for attacks on Western interests in the Middle East. "

and please I still want to hear your motive for the conspiracy, in your own words. You seem to be evading this question and giving more info! Hopefully you'll see this since its in bold.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:08 PM   #84
Woken_Sheep
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just a quick run down.

to get the people behind a war, and scare the population into submission so a police state survielence grid, microchipped population, un, fedral and military gun grabs and a cashless society can be installed. and to open the borders to canada and mexico through legislation to make way for a one world gov. or lord bush's new world order.


and what do you know

1. we went to war with iraq for unjust reasons.

2. they used fake terror alerts and untrue storys to scare people so they dont question things like the patriot act. they are installing cameras everywhere! they are putting in tolls all over the us on existing roads that have been payed for for years and they are now charging you to drive on them. they are going to be putting transponders in your tabs when you register that will tell a reader on the highway if you have insurance or not. it will also tell it if you were speeding and send you a ticket. the gov. is paying corporations to data mine your personal information. every wonder why its taking so long to make laws against spyware? now you know why.

3.fda passed veri chip to be implanted in human beings over christmas eve 2004.

4.military has been training and working with the police (which is against the law under the posse comitatus act) and the un doing mach gun grabs where fake towns are set up full of actors, and the armed forces go in and do gun searches and put people in prison camps. you can see this on the film i posted "police state 2 the take over"

5.super markets all over the place are installing thumb print scanners to pay for food. bars in europe and the us are microchipping people to get into bar vips and to charge a tab.

6.the mexicans are flowing across the border in the thousands each day, what do you think 30 million illegals working for less than minnimum wage is going to effect the country? its going to eliminate the middle class and it will only be the elite and the poor subservient class. the gov. just passed legislation for a national id card that is in conjunction with mexico and canada. that means that the mexican gov. and canadian gov. know exactly what the us knows about you. i dont know about you but i dont want th
e mexican gov. to have all my personal info

go here and read the news your media doesnt report. www.prisonplanet.com and www. jackblood.com

Last edited by Woken_Sheep; 06-13-2005 at 07:15 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:16 PM   #85
readsomestuff
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Quote:
I have another question, are the terrorist bombings in Madrid also part of some conspiracy? Or are those real terrorists?
terrorism : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

Quote:
Now, since according to your links al-qaeda are CIA assents, please tell me what the motive was in attacking Spain (if in fact they are CIA assets)?
The videos will explain all of this for you. Go watch Martial Law 911 and you will find out why.

http://martiallaw911.info/
http://911.freelancepartnership.com/

It's all explained very clearly if you take the time to watch the vids.

As I said before rksprst: I suggest you don't take our word for it, but instead, go look for yourself! I think that is what any truthseeker would do.

Last edited by readsomestuff; 06-13-2005 at 07:21 PM.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:24 PM   #86
Crashed_Again
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All you people who agree with these theories are so defensive yet so unwilling to answer our simple questions. Instead you spit out links to some sites:

"If you go searching around the web for the information some of us are talking about in this thread you will find endless resources. "

WELL DUH! The internet is the number #1 place to find misinformation and their is tons of it out there. Here is an example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ve&btnG=Search

a google search for "elvis is alive" returns 859,000 pages.(If you believe he is still alive then this doesn't apply to you.)

But I understand where you are coming from. It makes you feel good that you are not one of us "sheep". You know what really happened and we all have the wool pulled over our eyes. You pity us because we don't have the clarity that you do in realizing these things so you feel compelled to spew out your findings all over the net.

And that is absolute classic telling gbhill that because he doesn't have pictures he is not telling the truth. Classic. I'd love to see you confront families of the deceased with this nonsense. Ask them stupid questions like "How do you know your son is dead? Do you have pictures."

This thread has become borderline offensive due to certain peoples utter stupidity.

Finally, I ask you again to answer the following. Don't give me a link or tell me watch the movie, I want you to tell me. If your so sure in this then you should know the answers to these very simple questions:

1. Were the family members, I saw numerous times on the news, just actors hired to portray the mourning of their loved ones?
2. What about the terrorists on trial like Zacarias Moussaoui? Was he simply "framed" for this? Was he working for the goverment? What about the other hijackers? Real or fake? Did they work for the government?
3. What is the motive behind all this?
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:30 PM   #87
Woken_Sheep
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Quote:
All you people who agree with these theories are so defensive yet so unwilling to answer our simple questions. Instead you spit out links to some sites:
you call links to storys from ap ans bbc or london gaurdian "some sites"
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:34 PM   #88
Crashed_Again
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woken_Sheep
you call links to storys from ap ans bbc or london gaurdian "some sites"
and yet still no response to my questions...
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:37 PM   #89
twilli227
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Quote:
The videos will explain all of this for you. Go watch Martial Law 911 and you will find out why.
Quote:
It's all explained very clearly if you take the time to watch the vids.
Quote:
As I said before rksprst: I suggest you don't take our word for it, but instead, go look for yourself! I think that is what any truthseeker would do.
Quote:
I suggest you don't take our word for it, but instead, go look for yourself! I think that is what any truthseeker would do.
Quote:
why are you so affraid to watch the films? i know you havent otherwise you would know they are all based on fact not fiction. and are backed up by either actual live video evidence or documents.
These are only the requests from this page. What is in it for you, advertising dollars for page count? You can't even answer a few basic questions from people, instead you keep bombarding us with more useless information. Keep up the good work though, this thread is very amusing.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 07:41 PM   #90
Woken_Sheep
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Quote:
1. Were the family members, I saw numerous times on the news, just actors hired to portray the mourning of their loved ones?
2. What about the terrorists on trial like Zacarias Moussaoui? Was he simply "framed" for this? Was he working for the goverment? What about the other hijackers? Real or fake? Did they work for the government?
3. What is the motive behind all this?
*woken sheep sighs*

1. so just because they were mouring thier familys deaths the gov. couldnt have done it according to you?

2. i live in mn. brother and yes moussaoui was a cia asset. thier land lords were fbi members for one because they were watching them. the fbi in mn. told the bush admin that they were planning an attack and they recieved a signed order from bush in return telling them if they arrested them that they themselves would be arrested. he told the fbi that he would arrest them if they got involved and arrested mousaoui and his buddies.

3. ive already explained the motive, but you didnt notice because you have blinders on and you just wanna attack instead of actually take an objective look at what ive posted here for you. ive done all the work all you have to do is watch a freakin film and you lazy people cant even do that.
 
  


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