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Old 06-16-2005, 04:27 PM   #241
zackarya
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I was not trying to threadjack or anything. Just to throw some humor into the mix.
The thing about this thread now though is that we are in about the 4th iteration. (Or if the
comment about this being the matrix is correct is it the 6th to the 4th?) Anyway, sides
have been picked, information has been sorted through and either taken as having merit
or dismissed as having no merit. To keep reiterating the same points over and over does
nothing for the conversation. I watched the movies and read "most" of the links provided.
I personally sifted through the information available and made up my own mind. You can
keep saying the same thing over and over but that does not make me believe any more(or
any less for that matter). That's the reason for my "attempt at humor" post above.

Zack
 
Old 06-16-2005, 04:27 PM   #242
DJOldskool
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Lol I have seen that thats the high level grove member from earlier lol
 
Old 06-16-2005, 07:52 PM   #243
Rockclimber
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Williambishop wrote:

<<We need some fucking control in this country. It's been the wild west for 200 years and someone needs to put their foot down and exert a little law.>>

First off, thanks for your response. WB how much control will make you happy? do you advocate the bill or rights and I do mean all of them? If so than you should understand that Bush is turning our country into a police state. See the cold war ended and that would prevent the military industrial complex from making money on war. Now you want to talk about fucked up, how about the fact that wars create money ESPECIALLY for the military industrial complex. So how do you get a war? Well you invent a boogeyman such as hmmm... Osama Bin Ladin and known CIA asset who went by the name Tim Osman. Let's make another connection here while we are talking about the Bin Ladins. Did you know that the Bush family has had over a 30 year relationship with the Bin Ladins? Did you know the OBL is an Arab and not an Afghan? Most of the 19 hijakcers were from Saudi Arabia and allegedly financed by OBL. But lets not forget that the Bush's have this relationship, their oil buddies, in fact George Bush Sr. was meeting with the Carlye Group with a Bin Ladin attendee on 9-11-2001. Only two flights were allowed to fly on 9-12-2001 and guess which family was on one of those flights? Why the Bin Ladin family! Complete airspace lockdown and they let the family of the boogeyman fly back home. Do you find this a bit outrageous? I sure do. OBL was also reported to have visited a health clinic in the U.S. prior to 9-11 for dialysis treatment (I belive in Kansas) and we let him get away! The FBI was investigating Ralph bin Ladin prior to 9-11 and George W. ordered them to backoff. I could go on and on.

For the record, I WAS a Republican but haven't you noticed that the two parties almost have a lot in common anymore? I voted for Bush 1 and Bush 2 in 2000 but no one in 2004 because I am disgusted with the goings on in this great country. I prefer to call myself a constitutionalist because I do not want to be affiliated with the Neocon republicrats. As far as Schwarzeneggar? he loves Kurt Waldheim, thought Hitler was a great leader, his father was a NAZI, he is a racist, and a complete liberal using a conservative label. he is totally compromised, another puppet of the elite.

It appears you have a gripe or two about some of the weapons and in many instances the way they are mishandled. Shooting ducks with an M-16 is completely assinineHunting is a privelege and not a right, but gun ownership is a right. In my state (Arizona) the law is on the books that if (and hopefully never and doubt ever) I have to shoot someone, I can only shoot with the intent to kill. IOWs the law explicitly states that your life or that of another is in danger of being killed. I think the law is fair, if someone is trying to kill a member of my family, or me in my home, than I have the right to stop them. As far as our right to own guns, it is an important right! The idea was to keep us free from a tryannous government, one in which they had fought to chase out of this country. The KING would rule no more, which is why they created a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy which is mob rule. here is an example of democracy, "kill Jesus"!. Mob rule! Democracies always fail which is why our founding fathers gave us a republic. Benjamin Franklin stated when asked what kind of government did you give us? "A republic, if you can keep it". Well guess what, we didn't keep it. The idea was the PEOPLE ruled the government and the rule of law was authority over matters. The President was a civilian and "not above the law" as Attorney general Alberto the racist Gonzales so eloquently stated. Our second amendment can not beat the technology of the military and nor do I believe the military would turn on the people at this time. But the idea that we have guns puts a little fear in our government. Look at nations who lost their guns, Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, China under Mao. need I say more? Even if you are not a hunter it is for this very reason that we should own a gun.

I do believe that the weapon of FEAR has had an affect on you. Take a look around you and the orwellian world is falling into place. We are becoming a surveilance society and if for nothing else watch Martial Law 9-11 just to witness the controls they are putting in place. It's a complete nightmare and it is the product of their perpetual use of "fear". Why do you spit on Franklins words! FEAR has exploited your weakness and it's not your fault, but you are being conned! This administration has bombarded Americans with fear and now you see exactly what FRankln said not to do "Those who would give up liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" let those words sink in again. Your children deserve the liberties we have enjoyed, it's worth fighting for (non-violently mind you). Lenin, a bad man said something that rings true "words are more dangerous than weapons" We can use this in a positive way too. Think about this too before you totally cave into fear: Look at the blood taht was lost in wars to preserve our liberties. We need to keep this spirit alive, but not by creating boogeyman and wars for profit, sending our troops to 140 nations, while leaving our borders open, hardly any troops in the homeland-put them back here on our borders! now that's homeland security!

We (as in CC members) wouldn't be here if we didn't want a better world and I only came here out of curiosity from the post on that site. I would love to see a better world but not a dictatorship of a few world elites idea of a fascistic global utopia.


Please consider what I am saying.

Best regards,

RCS
 
Old 06-16-2005, 07:55 PM   #244
speel
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damn wheres a mod when you need them Lol
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:03 PM   #245
Rockclimber
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<<damn wheres a mod when you need them Lol>>

Yes, we must control freedom of speech because the truth scares speel! WTF speel, I do believe the thread is called GENERAL

I will make you happy for a second: Linux rules!!
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:07 PM   #246
Rockclimber
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BTW has anyone taken the time to look up: CAFTA/FTAA/PANAMERICAN UNION/AMERO?

Supported by the NEOCONS, regionalization of North and South America with no consent from "we the people". Maybe I'm wrong, did anybody ask you for your consent to open our borders and eviscerate our Constitution and national sovereignty?

Sounds like a CONSPIRACY to me, but wait, CONSPIRACIES don't exist!

Hmmmmmmmm....or do they?

Last edited by Rockclimber; 06-16-2005 at 08:10 PM.
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:26 PM   #247
Crashed_Again
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rockclimber
BTW has anyone taken the time to look up: CAFTA/FTAA/PANAMERICAN UNION/AMERO?
Well I can't speak for others but I know I haven't.
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:29 PM   #248
williamwbishop
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rockclimber
BTW has anyone taken the time to look up: CAFTA/FTAA/PANAMERICAN UNION/AMERO?

Supported by the NEOCONS, regionalization of North and South America with no consent from "we the people". Maybe I'm wrong, did anybody ask you for your consent to open our borders and eviscerate our Constitution and national sovereignty?

Sounds like a CONSPIRACY to me, but wait, CONSPIRACIES don't exist!

Hmmmmmmmm....or do they?
Medication exists for a reason amigo.....
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:38 PM   #249
Rockclimber
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<<Medication exists for a reason amigo....>>

yes, medication exists for BIG PHARMACEUTICALS. On that note look how BUSHY boy is in bed with Big Pharma by looking up the New Freedom Initiative...their buddy f'ers if you catch my drift. See there is no exact science when evaluating a child, but under the new freedom initiative all children will be evaluated and if you don't medicate them CPS will get involved. Forced drugging of your children, my children. That's freedom? Goes right along with SACRIFICING LIBERTIES FOR SAFETY. Your their Beotch!

Evasive aren't we? Can't answer the question? WB please tell why you won't look these up on Google or wherever?

Take 2-minutes too see the future of America...
 
Old 06-16-2005, 08:42 PM   #250
win32sux
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rockclimber
If so than you should understand that Bush is turning our country into a police state.
that is your OPINION...

Quote:
Did you know that the Bush family has had over a 30 year relationship with the Bin Ladins?
do you know how large the bin laden family is?? LOL!!!

Quote:
Did you know the OBL is an Arab and not an Afghan?
ummm, yeah... so what??

Quote:
Most of the 19 hijakcers were from Saudi Arabia and allegedly financed by OBL. But lets not forget that the Bush's have this relationship, their oil buddies
yes, let's not forget that relationship because it makes your conspiracy theory sound so much more plausible even though it has absoloutely no concrete connection with the facts... a bunch of circumstantial "evidence" - the bread and butter of conspiracy theories...

Quote:
George Bush Sr. was meeting with the Carlye Group with a Bin Ladin attendee on 9-11-2001.
once again, do you know how big OBL's family is?? do you think that because OBL decided to become a terrorist then somehow any Bin Laden is a terrorist?? no wonder so many were taken out of the country after 9/11 - to protect them from the extreme versions of minds like yours...

Quote:
Only two flights were allowed to fly on 9-12-2001 and guess which family was on one of those flights? Why the Bin Ladin family! Complete airspace lockdown and they let the family of the boogeyman fly back home. Do you find this a bit outrageous?
no, personally i don't find it outrageous... but a cynical conspiracy theorist would DEFINITELY find it outrageous... and he'd also post that on a thread in an attempt to back-up his conspiracy theories...

Quote:
OBL was also reported to have visited a health clinic in the U.S. prior to 9-11 for dialysis treatment (I belive in Kansas) and we let him get away!
this is interesting, i'd like to see a link about this... of course this has absoloutely no value to your conspiracy theory either way, governments mess-up all the time...

Quote:
The FBI was investigating Ralph bin Ladin prior to 9-11 and George W. ordered them to backoff. I could go on and on.
this sounds interesting also, but again, PURELY CIRCUMSTANCIAL... and, no - please don't go on and on...

Quote:
For the record, I WAS a Republican but haven't you noticed that the two parties almost have a lot in common anymore? I voted for Bush 1 and Bush 2 in 2000 but no one in 2004 because I am disgusted with the goings on in this great country. I prefer to call myself a constitutionalist because I do not want to be affiliated with the Neocon republicrats. As far as Schwarzeneggar? he loves Kurt Waldheim, thought Hitler was a great leader, his father was a NAZI, he is a racist, and a complete liberal using a conservative label. he is totally compromised, another puppet of the elite.
it's nice to see how easy it is for someone to be a "puppet" in your eyes... so basically all i have to do is be a politician that has excess baggage and i will automatically be considered a "puppet" of the Illuminati or whomever... LOL... you guy's logic is awesome...

Quote:
gun ownership is a right.
yes, but the right to bear arms doesn't mean civilians should have the right to bear AUTOMATIC weaponry... IMHO, there's ABSOLOUTELY NO REASON why any average joe should have the right to have an ASSAULT RIFLE... i think it's ridiculous to interpret the second ammendment in that manner...

Quote:
I do believe that the weapon of FEAR has had an affect on you. Take a look around you and the orwellian world is falling into place. We are becoming a surveilance society and if for nothing else watch Martial Law 9-11 just to witness the controls they are putting in place. It's a complete nightmare and it is the product of their perpetual use of "fear".
again, this is all just your OPINION... other people see the same things you see and DO NOT draw the same conclusions...

Quote:
Why do you spit on Franklins words! FEAR has exploited your weakness and it's not your fault, but you are being conned! This administration has bombarded Americans with fear and now you see exactly what FRankln said not to do "Those who would give up liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" let those words sink in again. Your children deserve the liberties we have enjoyed, it's worth fighting for (non-violently mind you). Lenin, a bad man said something that rings true "words are more dangerous than weapons" We can use this in a positive way too. Think about this too before you totally cave into fear: Look at the blood taht was lost in wars to preserve our liberties. We need to keep this spirit alive, but not by creating boogeyman and wars for profit, sending our troops to 140 nations, while leaving our borders open, hardly any troops in the homeland-put them back here on our borders! now that's homeland security!
is it really neccessary to use this thread to give presidential speeches?? LOL...

Quote:
We (as in CC members) wouldn't be here if we didn't want a better world and I only came here out of curiosity from the post on that site. I would love to see a better world but not a dictatorship of a few world elites idea of a fascistic global utopia.
your intentions might be true (at least inside your head), however, you are basing your entire conspiracy theory on circumstantial and sometimes even false information... the reality of the matter is that if you guys had even a SHRED of concrete evidence of foul play on 9/11 you wouldn't need to come into this or any other forum trying to get people to join your cult...


Last edited by win32sux; 06-17-2005 at 01:39 AM.
 
Old 06-17-2005, 01:18 PM   #251
zackarya
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Registered: Jul 2003
Distribution: OpenSuse 10, Debian
Posts: 152

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Hi win32sux, I agree with most of what you said except for this

quote:gun ownership is a right.


win32sux said:
yes, but the right to bear arms doesn't mean civilians should have the right to bear AUTOMATIC weaponry... IMHO, there's ABSOLOUTELY NO REASON why any average joe should have the right to have an ASSAULT RIFLE... i think it's ridiculous to interpret the second ammendment in that manner...

See this part I think has some problems. First off, you say that there is no REASON to have
a automatic weapon. Well, how is it YOU get to decide for the REST OF US what is within
reason and what's not. The whole ban on "assault rifles" was political in it's motivation and
did nothing to get dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals. All it did was (arbitrarily) take away specific models of weapons from law abiding citizens based on a knee jerk reaction.

I mean if we follow the whole REASON argument then:

There is no REASON to have a car that goes faster than 80 MPH.
There is no REASON to have a house with more than one room.
etc.

Now I know that you could come up with many reasons that you think that I'm wrong
about the above examples, but that's my point. It's not up to me to decide for you what
is within reason.

Zack
 
Old 06-17-2005, 04:45 PM   #252
Mara
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Quote:
Originally posted by speel
damn wheres a mod when you need them Lol
There are mods reading all this (250+ posts) and IMO there's no reason to close it at this point.
 
Old 06-17-2005, 04:51 PM   #253
DJOldskool
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Posts: n/a
the order that stoped FBI investigating members of saudi elite is W199i

A few agents resigned over this and leaked it


There are many THEORIES out there but they are all based around a core of disturbing undesputable truths. When u realise this u will understand what is going on in this movement
 
Old 06-17-2005, 05:37 PM   #254
Woken_Sheep
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hey guys im back what did i miss? my cable was out for a few days, fibre optic cable got cut in a storm.
good to see this threads still alive, lets me know that youre still interested, gives me hope.
 
Old 06-17-2005, 05:48 PM   #255
readsomestuff
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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: sometimes here, sometimes there
Distribution: MDK, CentOS, Red Hat, WinXP
Posts: 1

Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
zackarya said:
I was not trying to threadjack or anything. Just to throw some humor into the mix.
The thing about this thread now though is that we are in about the 4th iteration. (Or if the
comment about this being the matrix is correct is it the 6th to the 4th?) Anyway, sides
have been picked, information has been sorted through and either taken as having merit
or dismissed as having no merit. To keep reiterating the same points over and over does
nothing for the conversation. I watched the movies and read "most" of the links provided.
I personally sifted through the information available and made up my own mind. You can
keep saying the same thing over and over but that does not make me believe any more(or
any less for that matter). That's the reason for my "attempt at humor" post above.
Thanks for the explaination zackarya, your post actually was amusing. You obviously have a good imagination. Maybe you write science fiction often? If not, maybe you just found your calling.

I agree, this thread does go around in circles quite a bit. The problem I have is that those who are unwilling to look at the evidence don't tend to back up much (if anything) with evidence of their own.

What seems to occur is those of us who are taking steps to figure out what really happened on 9/11 and what is currently happening with the US and around the World, are being knocked down by slams that don't have anything to do with the evidence being given (for the most part). This does not mean that there have not been legitimate arguments in this thread as well. These slams in turn create more of an incentive to give more 'evidence' to support the reasoning. There is heaps of evidence backing up this particular film.

I don't see this thread ending any time soon.

For those of you who are willing to slam before taking a look at the evidence before you, I would suggest that you not post in this thread, but rather go about your normal everyday business of believing your government and the corporate / government controlled mass media.

zackarya, no matter what decision you have made on this topic, I thank you for taking a look at the film and some of the evidence that supports it. peace.
 
  


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