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Old 02-02-2021, 08:10 AM   #31
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
If google picks up all it's toys and goes home.
Google is not going to pick up all its toys and go home!

From the article timl linked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Silva, MD of Google Australia
If this version of the code were to become law it would give us no real choice but to stop making Google Search available in Australia.
There is no mention of other Google services being affected. Just Google Search, and probably only Australia-focused Google Search.

The article is about the news industry wanting payment for Google taking away their traffic. It has nothing to do with maps or Chrome or anything that isn't related to news.

 
Old 02-02-2021, 08:47 AM   #32
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So. Escalation is not problem with the world?
You can read the future?
Just going from Post 9 down wards.


I figured I was on topic. Oh well. Got broad shoulders. No biggy.
 
Old 02-02-2021, 08:51 AM   #33
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I have to agree with boughtonp, on all counts, throughout this thread - i.e.

1) Murdoch - almost definitely.
2) Most likely just Australia specific google - for example I can go to any google search second level domain, such as .ie or .fr and still see English language and localised search bubble results. If google search was "unavailable" in Australia, then presumably users would just see generic english language results, without any localisation. Blocking altogether, even for just search would be wholly the prerogative of the Australian government, not google. That would be something akin to measures taken by China.

Old, but relevant, articles relating to the Murdoch problem:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...cence-fee.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-media-policy
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-7768831.html

Last edited by cynwulf; 02-02-2021 at 08:52 AM.
 
Old 02-02-2021, 11:41 PM   #34
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
What is a down under chrome book user gonna do?

If google picks up all it's toys and goes home.
Bigger question: What are the schools going to do? All of the schools around us have signed onto Google Apps for Education.

We just plonked down the cash for a brand new HP ChromeBook (specified by the school) for my youngest. She's in grade 4 this year, and it is supposed to last until the end of grade 6.

The older one in year 8 (i.e. 8th grade) has a MacBook, but her school also uses GAfE... Not sure why they made us buy a MacBook for that, but I assume it's because they seem to be a fairly rugged and well built unit.
 
Old 02-03-2021, 02:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
There is no mention of other Google services being affected. Just Google Search, and probably only Australia-focused Google Search.
OK, so it's not a biggie. But that poses the question: if this is largely inconsequential, why aren't Google threatening it at all, or why aren't they just doing it instead of threatening?

Looking at the original article, Google would still have to pay those news publishers whether the result shows up on google.ie or google.au?

Anyhow, it's time to show these internet megacorps they're not above the law. Similar things happening elsewhere!
 
Old 02-03-2021, 06:07 AM   #36
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Looking at the original article, Google would still have to pay those news publishers whether the result shows up on google.ie or google.au?
That was my point earlier - the second level domain seems irrelevant these days. If I visit .au, .de, .fr, .ie, even .ch I see the same locale (United Kingdom), as if I'd visited .co.uk.
 
Old 02-03-2021, 08:17 AM   #37
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
But that poses the question: if this is largely inconsequential, why aren't Google threatening it at all, or why aren't they just doing it instead of threatening?
Because they don't want the code to become law and/or they want to give the impression of being opposed to that law.

Making Google Search less useful/relevant for Australians is not their goal (they want everyone relying on Google for everything). There's no benefit in doing it sooner than necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Looking at the original article, Google would still have to pay those news publishers whether the result shows up on google.ie or google.au?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
That was my point earlier - the second level domain seems irrelevant these days. If I visit .au, .de, .fr, .ie, even .ch I see the same locale (United Kingdom), as if I'd visited .co.uk.
What percentage of people would notice/care if Australian news results didn't turn up in an Irish search? (Any that complained would likely be told "login to Google to get personalized results".)

Still, I didn't expect that searching for a topic and clicking "News" would give the same results despite the domains. (That didn't used to be the case?)
This differs from going to news.google.com.au vs news.google.co.nz which give respective country-based results; I had thought Google News was folded into Google Search, but now I'm unsure if that's the case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Anyhow, it's time to show these internet megacorps they're not above the law.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's still not clear whether this is specifically and solely targetting Google and Facebook, or whether it's a greater issue that also affects others.

i.e. I am sure that neither side has the common good as a goal, but I don't know which outcome would be better.

 
Old 02-03-2021, 09:02 AM   #38
boughtonp
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This thread has so far been overly-focused on a single news article - never a good idea - so here is a quick selection of others:

---

2021-02-03 Reuters: Microsoft backs Australia's proposed media laws, eyes expansion
"Microsoft Corp said on Wednesday it fully supported proposed new laws in Australia that would force internet giants Google and Facebook Inc to pay domestic media outlets for their content."

2021-02-01 Associated Press: Australian prime minister says Bing could replace Google
"Australiaís prime minister said on Monday that Microsoft is confident it can fill the void if Google carries out its threat to remove its search engine from Australia."

2021-01-30 Bloomberg: Zuckerberg Hasnít Convinced Australia to Back Down From New Law
"Facebook Inc.ís Chief Executive Officer Mark Zuckerbergís meeting with Australiaís Treasurer Josh Frydenberg in the past week did little to resolve the spat between the social media giant and the country over proposed changes to media laws."

2021-01-28 Reuters: Explainer: Google, Facebook battle Australia over proposed revenue-sharing law
"Alphabet Incís Google has vowed to withdraw its main search engine from Australia, while Facebook Inc says it will block news sharing if the government proceeds with a law to make them pay domestic media outlets for content they feature."

2021-01-27 Reuters: Google revives Australia news platform launch amid content payment fight
"Google is reviving plans to launch its own news website in Australia within weeks, according to a local media outlet contracted to provide articles for the venture, as the search giant fights world-first proposed laws on content payments."

2021-01-14 Business Insider: Google is under fire for running experiments blocking some Australian news sites from search results
"Google is under fire for removing some local news content from its search results in Australia as part of an "experiment", in what critics called a "chilling illustration" of the firm's power."

2020-12-08 BBC: Australia to debate bill to make Google and Facebook pay for news
"Australia is to introduce a bill into parliament that would force Facebook and Google to pay news outlets for featuring their journalism."

2020-12-01 BBC: Facebook News will pay UK outlets for content in 2021
"Facebook will begin paying UK news publishers for some articles with the launch of Facebook News in January.
The feature adds a dedicated news tab to the Facebook app, and has already launched in the United States.
"

2020-08-17 Reuters: Google says Australian antitrust law would hit small content creators
"Alphabet Inc's Google on Monday said a proposed antitrust law in Australia forcing tech firms to pay for news that appears on their social media websites would adversely impact individual content creators and channel operators."

2020-06-25 The Hill: Google to pay some news publishers for content
"Google announced Thursday that it will begin paying some news publishers for their content.
Its new licensing program will pay publishers for "high-quality content" to post on a news service set to launch later this year.
The program will initially include Germanyís Der Spiegel, Australiaís InQueensland and InDaily and Brazilís Diarios Associados.
"

---

I should note I mostly only read the opening paragraphs and sometimes scanned the rest of the articles posted above - I haven't read any of them fully.

There's a lot of articles on this subject - most of them in the past few weeks - and it's unclear to what degree and how many are regurgitating the same stories, providing baseless speculation, or giving new information.

 
Old 02-03-2021, 10:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
Still, I didn't expect that searching for a topic and clicking "News" would give the same results despite the domains. (That didn't used to be the case?
The news is just a type of search criteria, it's still google search. I wasn't the case years ago. I remember being able to go to e.g. google.es, and it was of course in Spanish and get search results relevant to Spain - but I haven't used google for many years... now you have to go into the settings and change the region manually.
 
Old 02-03-2021, 02:10 PM   #40
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Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is, or what the PM is on about.

I went to google.com.au from Ireland, and typed in 'Forest fires', which Australia is having or has just had. The news was from Euro weekly News, Cnet, yahoo, South Korea, India, Alaska, Spain, LA, & Jerusalem. Nothing from Oz on page 1

So I tried 'forest fires Australia' to give it the hint. The first Aussie hit was 3rd, and only 2 were on page 1 or the results.

Google's rankings are based on links, are they not? It seems nobody links Aussie stories. Can anyone dream up a search that gets Australian news if that doesn't? If Google paid up for Aussie stories that were clicked, they'd probably have to cough up AU$0.50₵ per annum.

Last edited by business_kid; 02-03-2021 at 02:12 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2021, 07:17 AM   #41
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As I've explained twice now, above - the second level domain is irrelevant. You need to change the region to Australia in settings.

Then search for "prime minister scott morrison", click on "news" and you will see plenty of Australian based news media hits.

Last edited by cynwulf; 02-04-2021 at 07:24 AM.
 
Old 02-04-2021, 01:38 PM   #42
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Anyhow, it's time to show these internet megacorps they're not above the law. Similar things happening elsewhere!
Clarification: I favor internet regulation. Obviously, if it becomes law it applies to everyone; but it's those megacorps that make so much money and directly benefit from an unregulated internet.
 
Old 02-05-2021, 05:37 AM   #43
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Any thoughts on their game plan here? https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/0...r-proposed-law
 
Old 02-05-2021, 08:01 AM   #44
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Clarification: I favor internet regulation. Obviously, if it becomes law it applies to everyone; but it's those megacorps that make so much money and directly benefit from an unregulated internet.
Bad law is worse than no law.

Any legislation that requires an expensive and/or complicated process benefits those large over-powered corporations, because it cripples potential innovation and competition from individuals and smaller companies.

That's why I'm expressing concern at the possibility that Google, Zuckerberg's Facebook and Murdoch's News Corp are all on the same side here: this "battle" may be nothing more than a PR stunt to promote those giants as "good", who are eventually "forced" into compromising for exactly the positions they've already planned for, to benefit themselves and hinder competition.

 
Old 02-06-2021, 01:12 PM   #45
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Well let's hope for good legislation then.
The Wild West days of the internet are what enabled FAANG; I for one am glad to see those days come to an end.
 
  


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