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Old 12-12-2020, 01:41 PM   #16
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPGAgent View Post
I don't care, I don't use FB, Instagram, Whatsapp, Messenger - I'm guessing all the responders to this thread do! Prove me wrong folks.
You don't need to use Facebook to have a secret profile created about you.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles-are-frightening-dossiers-on-everyone

 
Old 12-12-2020, 01:44 PM   #17
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPGAgent View Post
I don't care, I don't use FB, Instagram, Whatsapp, Messenger - I'm guessing all the responders to this thread do! Prove me wrong folks.
I don't, so I'm proving you wrong.
But I do care because I see how big an impact it has on our society, on the vast majority of people, how those people form opinions, which sources they accept as, erm, acceptable news sources, how they let the "angry-people-click-more-truth-is-irrelevant" algorithms subdue them, etc. etc.
 
Old 12-12-2020, 01:59 PM   #18
hazel
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I care and I don't use any of them either. I care because I don't like to see the masses exploited for money while being tricked into thinking they are getting some kind of free service. That's immoral.

@GPGAgent: you wouldn't dream of saying, "I wasn't abused as a child so I don't care if other children get abused." Of course you care! Every decent person does, because that kind of behaviour is wrong by any standards. And so is what FF does to its customers.
 
Old 12-12-2020, 03:51 PM   #19
crts
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Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
Also, why the lawsuits now? Facebook bought Instagram in 2012, and it was approved by the FTC back then, so whilst it's good news it is also confusing.
Here is a link to the complaint by the FTC. As I understand it, the acquisition was OK back then. However, it has now become apparent that the acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp in combination with "anticompetitive conditioning of access to its platform to suppress competition" was part of a strategy to build a monopoly, as stated on page 3, point 9.
So it was a process that developed over years which finally triggered the response from the FTC. Page 40/41 sheds a bit more light on the "anticompetitive conditioning", point 139 in particular.
 
Old 12-12-2020, 06:39 PM   #20
boughtonp
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Thanks.

A lot of interesting stuff in that PDF, and I'm curious what the various redacted examples are about.

 
Old 12-12-2020, 09:30 PM   #21
crts
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Originally Posted by crts View Post
... point 139 in particular.
I mixed up the points. I meant point 136 (and following). Sorry.
 
Old 12-12-2020, 10:47 PM   #22
frankbell
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I think that this article by Joe Nocera is relevant to this thread: https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...s/202012120013
 
Old 12-13-2020, 01:15 AM   #23
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Speak for your own government.
And what's with the gun comparison? Americans...
Oh? Do any of your government's politicians use Linux, or for that matter, do any of them know the difference on ANY OpSys between a terminal and a GUI? Bottom line it is a generalization and I still think a valid one. There is a reason there is in this sub-forum a thread about Wow Computers, locked down PCs (so they can't mess it up) targeting the elderly. I'm old, but I'm odd.

Come on , ondoho, I know you hold some sort of a grudge against Americans, which incidentally as diverse as we are I find that rather puzzling, but it was an analogy. I suppose I could have used the airplane, automobile, or flush toilets, but it seemed to me more possible, needing less supporting technology and infrastructure, and also more immediately recognizable as a potent impact, since warring was so commonplace back then.

BTW, It wasn't an American that said "Gunpowder made all men equally tall" even though like so many old quotes, it has been attributed to someone else, in this case mainly Samuel Colt. Roger Bacon knew it's importance in the 13th Century. By the 15 Century, artillery was essential in all of Europe. Firearms absolutely dominated warfare in all of Europe by the 17th century. America didn't exist yet.

Edit - My apologies for being late to mention that I have high hopes for Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya and the people of Belarus. May she and they prevail.

Last edited by enorbet; 12-13-2020 at 01:49 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 03:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
The ever-closer links between Facebook (the "service") and Oculus (owned by Facebook (the company)) was the subject of a recent conversation with a friend about the state of VR. We've both been using Oculus products for the past couple of years and we like the specs of their latest offering, but not the close FB integration. Between that and concerns over the software ecosystem (which isn't likely to get better under tighter control) we decided to try one of their rivals next, even if the hardware is less impressive.

As for the new investigations, I welcome the idea but my natural cynicism urges caution. A couple of decades ago another tech behemoth was investigated and there was talk of breaking it up to end the monopoly - but in the end the regulators spat out their dentures and let the company choose a lesser punishment.

Last edited by Pastychomper; 12-14-2020 at 04:03 PM.
 
Old 12-15-2020, 01:03 AM   #25
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Oh? Do any of your government's politicians use Linux, or for that matter, do any of them know the difference on ANY OpSys between a terminal and a GUI?
That has nothing to do with your original statement.
Quote:
Bottom line it is a generalization and I still think a valid one.
Bottom lines is that I am arguing against precisely that.
Many governments are less dominated by "old white men", and many governments are tackling problems of internet & technology with expertise.
So, once again, if that isn't the case in your country, don't generalise that to the whole globe. That's what I'm begrudging.

Quote:
Come on , ondoho, I know you hold some sort of a grudge against Americans, which incidentally as diverse as we are I find that rather puzzling
See that's where you're wrong. You don't know that.
I keep arguing against some of your staunch nonsense, and that seems to be the only conclusion you can come up with. Self-obsessed you are maybe? It must be very puzzling to you that somebody doesn't buy your pseudo-intellectual outbursts?

Quote:
My apologies for being late to mention that I have high hopes for Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya and the people of Belarus. May she and they prevail.
Again: totally OT - and rather naive given the current situation. But thanks on their behalf, it's a beautiful sentiment.

@all: sorry for the outburst. This person really tickles me.
 
Old 12-15-2020, 04:54 AM   #26
jmgibson1981
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Quote:
Basically telling them they're too close to a monopoly, with Instagram and WhatsApp and all.
The American dream. Be successful... but not too much or we'll break it up.

I hate facebook but I also hate to see this. While I hate the idea of a monopoly it seems like laws of this nature penalize people for delivering a product people really want.
 
Old 12-15-2020, 07:37 AM   #27
teckk
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Quote:
The American dream. Be successful... but not too much or we'll break it up.
That's not exactly it. If you become large, with lots of resources, and you use that advantage to suppress and kill the competition, that's a monopoly, it's no longer a company competing for customers, and simply doing a better job and getting the most customers. It's also illegal to engage in price fixing and anti-competitive practices.

Competition drives down prices and causes businesses to give better service, so the consumers benefit.

When you are the only game in town, because you killed everything else off, so that nothing else can compete, you can charge what you want, do what you want. The consumers are harmed.

Good examples are Standard Oil, Microsoft for a while, and AT&T up to 1980.

That's a legitimate function of government to protect the week from the strong, and to provide/safeguard for the common welfare.

Another way to deal with that is to make facebook function under the laws of public utilities. They are privately owned, but must provide service to everyone. Even that one house 10 miles out in the country with no other houses around. So that they have to run 10 miles of cable, and they will never get that money back from him. Too bad, you are a public utility, you make your profit from the whole.

I don't know how that would work but, the phone system, that everyone has to use in this day and age, public utility, they can't just take their ball and go home.
 
Old 12-15-2020, 01:26 PM   #28
jmgibson1981
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I'd rather see telecoms be regulated like utilities than Facebook. Both a pipe dream though. They have effective monopolies, locking competition out of the area and such. It's quite rare to actually have a choice, at least here where I'm at. There competition, if you live in 1 of 3 blocks in town.
 
Old 12-16-2020, 03:11 PM   #29
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
This person really tickles me.
Looks like bias to me. I don't know yet if it is because I'm an American or because we often disagree but in either case that seems at the very least misguided and possibly petty if you are really interested in discourse rather than just pushing your opinions as self-evident fact. In any case, anyone who cares can certainly follow the "paper trail" evidence in LQN to decide for themselves just who we each actually are.

In this specific case, I contend that my initial post was both On Topic and factual. It seems to me you were irrationally triggered by an analogy that included firearms even though firearms were not essential to the analogy. It could have been any technology yet you missed the point that the concept did not depend on the device employed... just the impact.

I further contend that just because we often disagree is not sufficient reason to be "tickled" or triggered. I bear you no malice, ondoho, and consider our differences in opinion useful to the group as well as you and I, individually. I would hate to be surrounded only by "yes men". Good day, cousin.
 
  


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