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Old 03-12-2018, 08:30 AM   #61
sundialsvcs
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It's not a "conspiracy theory," and an ad hominem attack won't advance your position. This is a classic swindle, based on speculation. You're gambling that you can buy and re-sell a "pretty flower bulb" at a higher price before the market inevitably collapses.

Consider this: what's the "future value" of a US Dollar going to be tomorrow? "One dollar." You want to conduct a billion-Dollar transaction? No problem ... if you've got 'em, then the Dollars exist. Are they acceptable anywhere in the United States? Yes. Are they worth the same amount everywhere? Yes. Does the serial-number on a bill determine whether or not it will be accepted? No. Can electronic transactions substitute for "Dollars" if they are treated as Dollars? Yes. And so on. These are all characteristics of legal tender, i.e. (real) "coins."

No matter how hard this other stuff tries to call itself "money," these crypto-imposters are exactly what Charles MacKay wrote about, all those years ago. There's really nothing new in this world when it comes to human behavior: everybody wants to get rich quick, but the only ones who actually got fabulously wealthy from the California Gold Rush were hardware salesmen, photographers and whs.
 
Old 03-12-2018, 11:32 AM   #62
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Because its copyright has long since expired, Charles MacKay's [Memoirs of] Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds is readily (and, legally) available on-line for reading in your browser. (Or e-book.)

Does any of this 178-year old text sound familiar?
Quote:
[...] The demand for tulips of a rare species increased so much in the year 1636, that regular marts for their sale were established on the Stock Exchange of Amsterdam, in Rotterdam, Harlaem, Leyden, Alkmar, Hoorn, and other towns. Symptoms of gambling now became, for the first time, apparent. The stock-jobbers, ever on the alert for a new speculation, dealt largely in tulips, making use of all the means they so well knew how to employ, to cause fluctuations in prices. At first, as in all these gambling mania, confidence was at its height, and everybody gained. The tulip-jobbers speculated in the rise and fall of the tulip stocks, and made large profits by buying when prices fell, and selling out when they rose. Many individuals grew suddenly rich. A golden bait hung temptingly out before the people, and one after the other, they rushed to the tulip-marts, like flies around a honey-pot. Every one imagined that the passion for tulips would last for ever, and that the wealthy from every part of the world would send to Holland, and pay whatever prices were asked for them. The riches of Europe would be concentrated on the shores of the Zuyder Zee, and poverty banished from the favoured clime of Holland. Nobles, citizens, farmers, mechanics, sea-men, footmen, maid-servants, even chimney-sweeps and old clothes-women, dabbled in tulips. People of all grades converted their property into cash, and invested it in flowers. Houses and lands were offered for sale at ruinously low prices, or assigned in payment of bargains made at the tulip-mart. Foreigners became smitten with the same frenzy, and money poured into Holland from all directions. The prices of the necessaries of life rose again by degrees: houses and lands, horses and carriages, and luxuries of every sort, rose in value with them, and for some months Holland seemed the very antechamber of Plutus. The operations of the trade became so extensive and so intricate, that it was found necessary to draw up a code of laws for the guidance of the dealers. Notaries and clerks were also appointed, who devoted themselves exclusively to the interests of the trade. The designation of public notary was hardly known in some towns, that of tulip-notary usurping its place. In the smaller towns, where there was no exchange, the principal tavern was usually selected as the “show-place,” where high and low traded in tulips, and confirmed their bargains over sumptuous entertainments. These dinners were sometimes attended by two or three hundred persons, and large vases of tulips, in full bloom, were placed at regular intervals upon the tables and sideboards for their gratification during the repast.

At last, however, the more prudent began to see that this folly could not last forever . . .

[...] Defaulters were announced day after day in all the towns of Holland. Hundreds who, a few months previously, had begun to doubt that there was such a thing as poverty in the land, suddenly found themselves the possessors of a few bulbs, which nobody would buy, even though they offered them at one quarter of the sums they had paid for them. The cry of distress resounded every where, and each man accused his neighbour. The few who had contrived to enrich themselves hid their wealth from the knowledge of their fellow-citizens, and invested it in the English or other funds. Many who, for a brief season, had emerged from the humbler walks of life, were cast back into their original obscurity. Substantial merchants were reduced almost to beggary, and many a representative of a noble line saw the fortunes of his house ruined beyond redemption.

[...] There was no court in Holland which would enforce payment. The question was raised in Amsterdam, but the judges unanimously refused to interfere, on the ground that debts contracted in gambling were no debts in law.
And this is the inevitable outcome of the several similar swindles that Mr. MacKay dutifully recounts, including the Mississippi Scheme and the South Sea Bubble.

The substance, the plan, the promises of social benefit, the quickly-trotted out stories of successful "instant billionaires," the emphasis on "rarity" or "scarcity" as a guarantee of value – everything – is precisely the same. The only thing that has changed in 383 years is: "what exactly is to be the object of speculation this time?"

This time, strange (or maybe, apropos) as it may seem, it's a very-curious number. This time, and for the first time, it is completely intangible and abstract, not even pretending to have any sort of real corollary existence (such as "a share in the ownership of a company somewhere," let alone a flower bulb).

I can also clearly see that by now that "the jig is up," the game is winding down, and that it will not have been nearly as successful as its well-heeled backers had hoped. This was obviously an international scheme, very well funded and in many ways very creative. But I think that its outcome will be lackluster, the damage slight, and the civil and criminal penalties very severe. The ringleaders will not find the anonymity that they probably counted on. Contrary information simply travels too fast, and the Internet has too many eyes. This won't be a repeat of "dot-bomb," let alone of tulips. Governments, regulators, and law-enforcement by now have plenty of experience ... and, plenty of laws ... with which to deal with this, and they're doing it.

(Scour the landfills for "Bitcoin ATMs" before they bury them. Twenty or so years from now, they'll be a collector's item that ought to fetch a pretty penny on E-Bay.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 03-12-2018 at 11:59 AM.
 
Old 03-12-2018, 11:42 AM   #63
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
...
Does any of this 178-year old text sound familiar?
...
Yep, because you keep saying the same thing over and over and over again. Just in a different way each time.

Can't other's just be allowed to have their own opinion?
 
Old 03-12-2018, 01:41 PM   #64
sundialsvcs
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Point taken. Sorry.
 
  


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