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Old 01-22-2018, 02:32 PM   #31
Eliijah
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no ider why he cales investors "foles" bitcoin has bin the best thing you could invest in during the last 2 year or so. besides in order to see the potential you would have to think diferently and probobly be very bright. In fakt now any one would in retrospekt have put in every thing they owned in bitcoin two year ago.

right now you might be a fool to invest but no one knows for sure. right now I think pepele that have bin sitting on bitcoin for a long time are now selling there invstments distributing them among newcomers.

the new crowds is made up by the "regular person" that are aways slow. perhaps thay will be the losers or the real winners no one knows for sure. what is evident is that more people are involved in bitcoin now then ever.

Last edited by Eliijah; 01-22-2018 at 02:55 PM.
 
Old 01-22-2018, 02:46 PM   #32
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xxx

Last edited by Eliijah; 01-22-2018 at 02:49 PM.
 
Old 01-22-2018, 02:52 PM   #33
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I just heard in the Noon Business Hour on the radio (WBBM Chicago) that some people trying to sell their bitcoins aren't able to find a buyer. "If you want an extremely volatile, highly illiquid investment, be my guest."
 
Old 02-02-2018, 09:02 PM   #34
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Paul Krugman in a recent column argues that bitcoin is essentially a Ponzi scheme.

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion...-ponzi-scheme/
 
Old 02-02-2018, 09:13 PM   #35
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He's almost ten years late for that observation though - most of the more serious economists were first.
 
Old 02-02-2018, 09:31 PM   #36
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Do a web search for "Paul Krugman bitcoin." You will find that he has written about bitcoin often; this is just his latest.
 
Old 02-05-2018, 08:54 AM   #37
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A better analogy, I think, is "digital tulips."

Tulip Mania was a classic example of this kind of crowd psychology, this time centered around unusual tulips. (No one knew at the time that it was caused by an infection.) It was heavily featured in Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, a book that has been in print for well over a hundred years now. (There's a reason for that ...)

The block-chaining algorithm that was used to develop Bitcoin was purposely engineered to create the notion of rarity, which many people erroneously think is a necessary feature of currency. (In fact, currency is required in limitless supply, so that every transaction that is requested can be denominated.)

Good ol' crowd psychology then took over, and the perpetrators had deep pockets. They made bitcoin "appear from nowhere" all around the world, all at once, and to be featured by "investment advisors" and bankers. (Such that one banker was severely castigated by his greedy fellows for pointing out that the Emperor had no clothes.) They obviously didn't care which nation(s) they swindled. Unfortunately, plenty of people immediately understood that it was a swindle and spoke out against it quite openly. And, people listened.

The swindle is running its course a little bit faster than I had anticipated. Somebody got cold feet.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-05-2018 at 08:59 AM.
 
Old 02-05-2018, 10:52 AM   #38
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One of the big banks (I think HSBC) has prohibited its customers from buying bitcoin with their credit cards. Legally they have a perfect right to do this since credit cards spend the bank's money, not yours. Ostensibly they have taken this step to protect their customers from scams, but I suspect the real reason is that they don't want customers racking up huge debts and then going bankrupt.
 
Old 02-05-2018, 01:19 PM   #39
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More likely, they don't want their credit cards being used to fund a criminal enterprise.
 
Old 02-05-2018, 02:43 PM   #40
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They wont be able to stop bitcoin that way by limiting buying options. If it would be illegal to accept it as payment that might work. But Im not sure is possible. any way all legal action will probably make bitcoin even better for criminal activities. A per2per network for trading that is running trough tor is coming up apparently. So its days as a currency for criminal activities is not over for sure.


Its way down now any way. I wounder if its ever going to be investible again. And whay about Kraken (one of the marketplaces) sould I wory abut my dollars that I have there?

An pleas chek out the link from 2017! I wounder what his up to this days its almost as if he has vanished. However he do display extreme credibility in the interview I think he actually believes what his saying..

20 of November 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Obc_cJba4&t=893s

Last edited by Eliijah; 02-05-2018 at 03:21 PM.
 
Old 02-19-2018, 06:31 AM   #41
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I just reinvested at 8 of February, an other investment at 16 planing an an other one i a few of days if all goes well. My principle is to accept decline of 30% on the third investment 20 on the second 10 on the first one. then adding 10% acceptance for decline for every new investment that goes well.

10 20 30
10 20 30 40
10 20 30 40 50

This makes me more and more resistance to fluctuations.

I will keep doing this every 5 day or so investing same amount every time until I empty my bank account. That wont happen obviously no ideer how many investment will be able to do given the principle noted. However there is a steady increasing going on right now not as extreme as in December and that is promising.

It is important to check the value every 6 hour or so because it can potentially drop 50% more in a day how ever right now its a steady increasing value make that less likely.

All tough Im in this for the short run Im confident that one bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency can be worth millions in future (Pleas dont get any based on this tough!) so im definitely keeping a few.

Last edited by Eliijah; 02-19-2018 at 06:40 AM.
 
Old 02-19-2018, 04:04 PM   #42
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"Hello, troll!"

The very best so-far article that I have read on this (literally ...) "more than 100 year old subject" is this one: (and pardon me for repeating myself ...)

Why Bitcoin Is Stupid

Quote:
“Holy Shit!” is the only reasonable reaction. You’ve got Bitcoin with a market value of $234 Billion Dollars, then Ripple at $92 billion with Ethereum right behind at $85,792,800,592.

These are preposterous numbers. The imaginary value of these valueless bits of computer data represents enough money to change the course of the entire human race, for example eliminating all poverty or replacing the entire world’s 800 gigawatts of coal power plants with solar generation. Why? WHY???
(The post then proceeds for quite a few more pages to meticulously analyze the entire phenomenon, both from a social/human perspective and from that of a software-geek whose career emphasized cryptography and authentication.)

Caveat Emptor.™

Quote:
Why was Bitcoin Even Invented?

Understanding the motivation is a big part of understanding Bitcoin. As the legend goes, an anonymous developer published this whitepaper in 2008 under the fake name Satoshi Nakamoto. It’s well written and pretty obviously by a real software and math person. But it also has some ideology built in – the assumption that giving national governments the ability to monitor flows of money in the financial system and use it as a form of law enforcement is wrong.

This financial libertarian streak is at the core of Bitcoin, and you’ll hear echoes of that sentiment in all the pro-crypto blogs and podcasts. The sensible-sounding ones will say, “Sure the G20 nations all have stable financial systems, but Bitcoin is a lifesaver in places like Venezuela where the government can vaporize your wealth when you sleep.”

The harder-core pundits say “Even the US Federal Reserve is a bunch ‘a’ CROOKS, stealing your money via INFLATION, and that nasty Fiat Currency they issue is nothing but TOILET PAPER!!”

It’s all the same stuff that people say about Gold, which is also a totally irrational waste of human investment energy.

Government-issued currencies have value because they represent human trust and cooperation. There is no wealth and no trade without these two things, so you might as well go all-in and trust people. There are no financial instruments that will protect you from a world where we no longer trust each other.

So, Bitcoin is a protocol invented to solve a money problem that simply does not exist in the rich countries, which is where most of the money is.

Sure, an anonymous way to exchange money and escape the eyes of a corrupt government is a good thing for human rights. But at least 98% of [MMM readers] do not live in countries where this is an issue.

So just relax, lean into it [...]

– – –

The Cryptocurrency bubble is really a replay of the past: A good percentage of Humans are prone to mass delusions which lead to irrational behavior. This is a known bug in our operating system, and we have designed some parts of our society to protect us against it.

These days, stocks are regulated by the SEC, precisely because in the olden days, there were many, many stocks issued that were much like Bitcoin. (Edit: "and somehow we still we had 'the Dot-Bomb Bubble™ ...") Marketed to unsophisticated investors as a get-rich-quick scheme. The very definition of an unsophisticated investor is: “being more willing to buy something, the more its price goes up.”
. . .

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-19-2018 at 04:16 PM.
 
Old 02-19-2018, 04:47 PM   #43
Eliijah
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Thanks alot for your input I rarely see that point of view and you pretty much serve it to me. Some of you're comparisons, or that you are referring to, are way of tough I can elaborate on that if you like.

And is "bitcoin stupid".. Well to stat with the person/persons how came up with it is a borderline genius that will be mention in the history books (perhaps only as a pseudonym).

And the impact of bitcoin is not stupid ether on the contrary it will push the slow conservative banks in a direction that will benefit every one.

Any thirdly I will keep updating right now its hard to tell if an an other opportunity to make alot of many on bitcoin lies a head or not. That is really what is an issue in this thread.

The reason why I made this thread is becous there are alot of bright people here that are not to biased. However I do realize that the overall concept of bitcoin is very disturbing to some contentious people an observation I make over and over again that is very interesting in its own right.

Last edited by Eliijah; 02-19-2018 at 04:51 PM.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 11:35 AM   #44
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"The concept of bitcoin" is two-fold.

On the one hand, "block-chain tokens" are a very exciting development that promises to be revolutionary ... as soon as we find a way to calculate billions of 'em every day. They will make a dramatic improvement in all kinds of electronic-settlement processes as soon as it no longer takes the combined electrical output of Niagara Falls to calculate one of them.

But on the other hand, "the bitcoin scam is old as the hills." Charles Mackay wrote Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds in 1841 and it has been in-print in every major language ever since ... with very good reason. It's a 21st Century manifestation of the same scam, obviously perpetrated by people who intend it to be an international swindle. (Organized Crime is also obviously in on it ... a South Korean official who's been outspoken against it was recently found murdered.)

Bitcoin preys upon the notion that "money," in order to be valuable, must be "rare." But the opposite is true: trillions of Legal Tender™ currency units change hands each and every day, and by-definition we must never run short. If you're entitled to have one, it exists.

Bitcoin is legally defined as a barter token, and plenty of barter transactions also take place each day: if a group of parties wish to agree to accept a token, they're free to do so. Certain forms of international trade form "closed ecosystems" in which the use of barter saves money that would otherwise be lost in to-them-pointless currency exchanges. (But Bitcoin knowingly breaks those laws by calling itself a coin. Your barter tokens are not Legal Tender Currency, and must not in any way resemble Legal Tender Currency.) Even as a barter token, bitcoin is unworkable because of the supply problem: there is inadequate liquidity.

The substance of the scam is hundreds of years old: "this thing is preposterously valuable (because I said so ...)," and "just look at how many other people are becoming gadzillionaires!" The perpetrators move the pump-handle up and down, loudly professing to all who will hear that they are thereby generating insane amounts of "value," then suddenly walk away. The "dot-bomb bubble" was more or less an identical scam. (But I seized the IPO-day opportunity to make a very profitable long-term investment in RHAT, a company whose product I of course knew very well and whose business strategy I agreed with.) The come-on is still hard for human beings to resist, but the right thing to do is quite simple: "just don't fall for it."

"If it sounds too good to be true – it is."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-20-2018 at 11:43 AM.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 02:34 PM   #45
Eliijah
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Yes I will read that. Noting: Put in an other load of mony right now (that is my third purchase) at the price of 1167 USD. Some worrying tendencies lately tough almost waited but lets see.It has be a very god week.

Its hard to tell how long it will go on but in my opinion people are moving assets from other cryptocurrencies to bitcoin right now as there are down going trend in some of the cryptocurrencies that corresponds to the increase in bitcoin also the same cryptocurrencies increased as bitcoin crashed in November. But some of that crash was also due to, or rather triggered by, chines people getting there accedes for the new year it seams to be a consistent pattern showing up every year.

Last edited by Eliijah; 02-20-2018 at 03:47 PM.
 
  


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