LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Linux Power User Bundle
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 08-21-2018, 06:47 AM   #1
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Rep: Reputation: 3
Future and present of Linux?


Hello, I hope I am not off-topic, if so, please move it to the right section!


I have lately discussed with several close source commercial graphic software creators and their communities, on their forums, on requests from their communities members (well, small parts of) to support a Linux version of some of their tools, mainly related to photography and vector graphics (like Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator, Affinity suite etc.).
All these say Linux is a small part of the market in their opinion and do not worth the financial effort to provide Linux versions of their tools, that Linux has no future being for GPL and related or similar licensing only, that Linux community is not interested in their tools as there are free and open alternatives to them and Linux users wouldn't pay for such software and, also, Linux, in 10 years did not evolve, it misses important features to make it appealing technically to port their software, and is, basically, for geeks and has no future in this regard.
Well, after this kind of statements, after calming down, trying to take it positively, I came here to ask those that are willing to take it as a belief (on their part), based on marketing analysis, and not as a rant, what is your opinion? How true you think it is? You are on such various platforms, as I trust there are people here capable to ask to this in a cold fashion, rather than taking personally and rejecting from a start and starting to put labels on those companies and their people.
So, what do you say?


As a side note, from my personal point of view, I try to rely on Linux only in my personal life.

Last edited by msdobrescu; 08-21-2018 at 06:50 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 06:55 AM   #2
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: CentOS at the time of this writing, but some others over the years too...
Posts: 2,482

Rep: Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160
I can't see how you are "off-topic" given this is the "off-topic" general forum, so no need to worry.

In relation to your question;

I think there are already Linux apps for most if not all of the non-Linux apps you mention. In terms of graphics for one area; there's GIMP, Blender, etc, etc.

The only area/market Linux hasn't got as much market share as Windows, etc, would be the desktop market. But even then, it's not like it was in 2001 where there may or may not have been Linux alternatives for a lot of apps and areas. Even more games are becoming available for Linux nowadays and M$ is even getting in on it... what's that tell ya?

So I think the above statement is a little overblown, nothing personal BTW.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:16 AM   #3
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, Vsido, tinycore, Q4OS
Posts: 2,809

Rep: Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166Reputation: 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdobrescu View Post
Hello, I hope I am not off-topic, if so, please move it to the right section!


I have lately discussed with several close source commercial graphic software creators and their communities, on their forums, on requests from their communities members (well, small parts of) to support a Linux version of some of their tools, mainly related to photography and vector graphics (like Adobe's Photoshop and Illustrator, Affinity suite etc.).
All these say Linux is a small part of the market in their opinion and do not worth the financial effort to provide Linux versions of their tools, that Linux has no future being for GPL and related or similar licensing only, that Linux community is not interested in their tools as there are free and open alternatives to them and Linux users wouldn't pay for such software and, also, Linux, in 10 years did not evolve, it misses important features to make it appealing technically to port their software, and is, basically, for geeks and has no future in this regard.
Well, after this kind of statements, after calming down, trying to take it positively, I came here to ask those that are willing to take it as a belief (on their part), based on marketing analysis, and not as a rant, what is your opinion? How true you think it is? You are on such various platforms, as I trust there are people here capable to ask to this in a cold fashion, rather than taking personally and rejecting from a start and starting to put labels on those companies and their people.
So, what do you say?


As a side note, from my personal point of view, I try to rely on Linux only in my personal life.
I used to consider such opinions silly and short sighted. I still disagree, but have come to understand that while they may be wrong from a technical standpoint, they may be correct from a business standpoint.

If I may digress: from 1997 until 2005 I was a Network and System Administrator for a steel company. One of the operations was a Research and Development arm that developed new steel, and new applications for steel. While they used Windows workstations, the serious CAD/CAMM work was done on HP-UX servers and clients running some SERIOUS graphic and cad applications ($10k USD per install or more). While the same vendor made software for Windows, that OS was simply not up to the job. In the next version they were going to have to migrate from HP-UX to Linux to get even better performance and support the new versions as the vendor was dropping support for HP-UX.

For the serious commercial user $10k is chicken feed. For the casual user, home user, small business user the cost for such software is simply too high. The free and inexpensive Windows and linux programs have to be good enough, because the use case and business case simply do not support the investment. The results is not that Linux will nto do the job, it is that porting a powerful package is expensive, the competition with free packages so fierce, and the market projection so small, that porting to Linux might never pay.

When you make a business decision about supporting a new platform, you have to look not only at CAN it be done and SHOULD it be done, but also at the business risk of being the one to DO THAT JOB. Small startups and private companies can make personal decisions to take that risk. Established companies and public corporations tend to be far more conservative, and they need to mitigate the risk of investment in ANY project. If the cost is high, the risk is high, and they payout uncertain or lacking entirely, they are VERY unlikely to go for it. No matter what verbiage they wrap around justifying the decision, it comes down to being frightened of the risk of business failure EVEN IF THEY SUCCEED TECHNICALLY.

We are, in part, to blame. We make the Free tools SO good that they simply do not want to compete with us. Can you blame them?
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:27 AM   #4
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Nothing personal at all. Still, this is their attitude.


I must admit, in therms of laziness ~ I speak strictly for myself ~ with all the appreciation for the efforts of the developers of GIMP, DarkTable, RawTherapee etc., I find Photoshop's ACR and content aware technology (inspired by GIMP's Resynthesizer) very effective, I work very fast with it. I know, lately, RawTherabee improved very much, DarkTable might be as hardcore as ACR is (I don't like Lightroom approach at all), but I still prefer Photoshop. This is because I can't find a way to do the job as fast in other tools. Also panoramas are great, and I need no other additional tool for that too in Photoshop.


I find pretty overblown that statement too, this is why I came here, to clarify myself if I am too confident in Linux and that is unsustained.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:38 AM   #5
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: CentOS at the time of this writing, but some others over the years too...
Posts: 2,482

Rep: Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160
Well, you should remember that if you're talking about Android, then it would not only make all the sense in the world to develop for it, the return for paid apps would be and is there, it IS the go-to platform for smartphones, tablets, etc. Once again, "market share" are the keywords there, that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. That's where the $$$ are, simple as that.

Android is still Linux at the end of the day.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:40 AM   #6
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
We are, in part, to blame. We make the Free tools SO good that they simply do not want to compete with us. Can you blame them?

Hmm, I admit, there are great free tools under Linux, but I would not compare GIMP with Photoshop simply because they have different way of doing things, or I am unable to find GIMP's handlers. I do appreciate it a lot, but I end doing things three times slower. Inkscape is brilliant, still EPS is adopted as industry standard, not SVG. ACR does the job in 1-3 seconds, by pressing a button and the result is so close to what I need from the start as the adjustments are a few. It's hard to beat that.


Also, a common complaint is related to missing drivers. I feel that major companies often don't provide Linux drivers, especially for printing.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:43 AM   #7
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
[QUOTE=jsbjsb001;5893951Android is still Linux at the end of the day. [/QUOTE]


Indeed, another paradox, apparently, some provide Android apps, but no other Linux ports. How costly would that be to chose some Linux distro?
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:43 AM   #8
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: CentOS at the time of this writing, but some others over the years too...
Posts: 2,482

Rep: Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdobrescu View Post
...Also, a common complaint is related to missing drivers. I feel that major companies often don't provide Linux drivers, especially for printing.
More and more are writing Linux drivers/supporting Linux. Also see my post above about Android, that's a big part of Linux's future (not the only part tho).
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:46 AM   #9
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
More and more are writing Linux drivers/supporting Linux. Also see my post above about Android, that's a big part of Linux's future (not the only part tho).

IMHO, Android suffers from other OS'es sins, like major privacy issues, although it's an important ambassador of Linux.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:50 AM   #10
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: CentOS at the time of this writing, but some others over the years too...
Posts: 2,482

Rep: Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160Reputation: 1160
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdobrescu View Post
IMHO, Android suffers from other OS'es sins, like major privacy issues, although it's an important ambassador of Linux.
Personally I think any system that gets popular can and does face very similar issues regarding such things and I can't see that changing any time soon either. I think you could say the same about a lot of other IT related things too... heard of the "Internet of Things" (IoT devices) ?

Same/similar story.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 07:58 AM   #11
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Yes, IoT is a pain too. This is why I have a router and I disallow stuff from my home to get out freely. I was horrified by my new TV that accepted voice commands with my consent to send my voice recording to the producer (where some A.I. or speech recognition should have commanded back to my TV). Are you kidding me ??? ROFL.

To be exact, Android is a Linux distribution with its own DE that has builtin collecting data on the user. It reminds me of the "Zeitgeist Framework Team" project too and Ubuntu's Unity. A good idea until it works against you.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 08:00 AM   #12
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 2,682
Blog Entries: 6

Rep: Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdobrescu View Post
Also, a common complaint is related to missing drivers. I feel that major companies often don't provide Linux drivers, especially for printing.
Realistically, why should they? Full-colour printers are a desktop thing. Servers don't need them. And most desktop machines run Windows, not Linux. So a printer has to be Windows-compatible but adding a Linux driver won't increase the market much. It just increases the producer's costs.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 08:04 AM   #13
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Realistically, why should they? Full-colour printers are a desktop thing. Servers don't need them. And most desktop machines run Windows, not Linux. So a printer has to be Windows-compatible but adding a Linux driver won't increase the market much. It just increases the producer's costs.

Well, I use Linux as a desktop since a long time.

The only thing keeping me bound to Windows is Photoshop. Windows costs me a lot ~ not talking about the licensing, not about spying on me. I spend too much to fix it. Lately, two times a year some major updates come. Each time I have to wipe GRUB, restore Windows boot, otherwise is unable to upgrade and tries again and again to upgrade, regardless my option not to. And then it remains in some boot loop due to some bugs ~ last time it took days to figure out why. Once for some calibration device drivers incompatibility, one for active virtualization in BIOS. I would like so much to get rid of it.

Last edited by msdobrescu; 08-21-2018 at 08:09 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 08:47 AM   #14
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 2,682
Blog Entries: 6

Rep: Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367Reputation: 1367
You're not alone! Nobody here likes Windows. But that's the point: nobody here. Hardware manufacturers aren't concerned with what we say here; they have to serve the majority because that's where the profit lies.

Have you considered running Windows in a virtual machine? You'd still have to pay their fees but it would probably solve your boot problems.
 
Old 08-21-2018, 08:56 AM   #15
msdobrescu
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Romania
Distribution: Sabayon
Posts: 28

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3
Right now, activating virtualization does things to any Windows 10 boot after the April update. Plus, I miss the hardware acceleration in Photoshop.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Initializing and Managing Services in Linux: Past, Present and Future LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 05-20-2015 11:12 PM
LXer: Oracle Linux: The Past, Present and Future Revealed LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-20-2012 09:50 AM
LXer: This week at LWN: LPC: The past, present, and future of Linux audio LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 10-23-2009 07:21 PM
NetBSD - present and future reverse *BSD 1 08-19-2007 05:53 PM
Cisco interviews Linus Torvalds about the past, present, and future of Linux. jeremy Linux - General 1 11-05-2001 03:29 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:58 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration