As you may know we are at days of the release of Firefox 1.5, the drums are prepared and there a lot of expectation on this release, http://www.spreadfirefox.com/, there are high hopes that this release could be the one that will "defeat" Internet Explorer once and for all. What do you think?. I consider Firefox the flagship of FOSS and the one that is really hitting hard at the monopoly of Windows.

What is really worth reviewing is the story behind Firefox. It's for me not just coincidence but something meant to be, specially because it is surrounded of irony.

We all witnessed how Microsoft with all its might destroyed Netscape in the browser war, but it accomplished this not with the quality of software but using all its dirty tricks. No organization or government stop this outrageous behavior, it seemed that Microsoft had escaped from being guilty of using Internet Explorer bundled so tightly to the Windows OS in order to prevent the use of Nestape. They thought this war was over, as I read they even dismantled the development team of Explorer some years ago. It's ironic that Firefox emerge from the ashes of Netscape as a Phoenix (Mozilla considered this name but they couldn't use it because of copyright problems), and in some days they could start the battle that will "defeat" IE ...

What an irony! This time Microsoft can't use its dirty tricks with Firefox, because Firefox is free software it does not belong to any enterprise that they could destroy or buy. It is impervious to any attempt of defeating it with the monopoly in the desktop area. it's superior on every comparison that you make. Haha, another irony, IE 7 will copy some features already present in Firefox 1.0.xxx, now who's copying who? (A typical FUD tactic)...What they can do?? I believe that they are running out of tricks. If this is not enough, due to the tricks they used to destroy Netscape, they made Windows very permissive for being attacked by viruses, spy ware, etc. this is one of the main reasons why people is using Firefox instead of IE!...

Could this be the fact that will be in books of history as the beginning of the end of the monopoly of Microsoft? Taking into account not only Firefox but all the free and open source software of high quality that we have now? (Linux (kernel), GNU compilers, GNOME, KDE, OpenOffice.org, Amarok, and a very large etc).

Ah, my congratulations to all the developers of Firefox, they rock!

This kind of discussion has been done to death and all in all, who cares? As long as I'm using the browser I want to use and there is enough interest in it that the dev team won't walk away then I'm happy. The Mozilla team has done a great job with Firefox and I've donated a few bucks their way to say thanks but if people choose to use IE how is that my problem why is it worth discussing?

Firefox is a good browser, good enough to stick around in the face of a giant like Internet Explorer and another extremely efficient browser like Opera, I've had my say.

Internet Explorer is best browser in the world. I love activex controls too. They can be really fun. The internet explorer implementation of javascript is definitely the best. You can change the color of your scroll bars and so much more with it. Wow!

I think what linux needs an internet explorer that always runs in root mode. Then linux can have a serious hold in the desktop. Then it can outstrip Microsoft by including a built-in Kazza. I mean why be bothered security and passwords and whatnots. Its not like we're the NSA, here. You silly OSS users think everyone is trying to hack your computer.

Mplayer plugin and Sun Java was all I needed to completely eliminate any need for IE. Had already eliminated the need for Windows by running IE 6 under WINE. If distros setup those two things by default would really improve people's perception of Linux, IMHO. Right now "it just doesn't work" straight out of the box.

**EDIT**I got Java working, thanks anyway though

I personally am awaiting the release of 1.5. Java is probably the hardest part of using firefox, but I go back to internet explorer(at work) and I'm like "where's adblock? oh right..."

Yeah, right. Internet Explorer's JavaScript implementation sucks. It can't even handle DOM right. Try opening an html file containing this in internet explorer:

Big deal that IE can change the scrollbar colors, as far as I can see, that is the only thing it can do right.

It doesn't handle CSS right either

as for "defeating IE" only education of the general public can bring that about. with all of the flaws that IE has and with the next IE 7 going to be for XP and Vista ONLY( and it may not be for XP) a lot of potential for education is there.

For years I only knew about IE and Netscape even for the first few years I was working in the computer field as a desktop repair tech. those were the only 2 browsers i ever heard of. i have always disliked IE, but 5.5 made it tolerable until the malware started floating around like ravaging little mice getting into every system.

IE 6.x made things a little easier to manage cookies, but that is all it did on the positive side.

Then several years ago i was introduced to Opera and at the time Firebird. I really really really like Opera and still do. at the time firebird did not have any extensions and was missing several features that i really like in Opera like the mouse gestures to move around (navigate) and its ability to block adds.

Now that Firefox has so many extensions that work and it is free, plus it is very compliant with the many RFCs for handling web languages i refuse to use anything different. If i can not browse a site due to it not being compatible with FF, then i just send their webmaster an e-mail and do not go back to that site.

exception to that are gov. sites. if they do not work with anything other then IE, i file a complaint and start walking that complaint up the chain of command until things are changed. Have been successful on several .gov sites in FL so far, but still working on getting my local public school sites changed to work with anything other then IE.

does not help that we are 49 out of 50 in education, now i can see why. stupid Gov. Childes and his 4 BILLION $ education cut in the late 80s...

but i regress...

until someone pointed out Opera to me i had no clue there were other options then IE and Netscape. Once Opera was pointed out to me, i tried it, liked it, and started looking around for more and more open source software to start replacing the "windows" software i had been forced to use over the past several years that cause all of their known problems.

so to sum things up, education is the key. expose more and more people to the powers and wonders of FF and other browsers + other open source software like The Gimp, OO, etc... show them what they can do and what they protect their systems FROM. first clean out their system by getting rid of the hundreds if not thousands of malware in their system and educate them were that stuff came from, how it got there, and what it is doing to their system(s).

at that point they will be ready and willing to see how to protect them self and then you can educate them on the powers of Open Source software and start leading them down a path to think for them self instead of just accepting the LIES that MS tells/sells them every day on the TV, Radio, and their computer.

Its a browser. Just let people use what they are comfortable with. I don't see why anyone needs to take out anyone else. They are all free browsers.

I don't necessarily agree that Netscape lost the old browser war because of Microsoft's doings. The Netscape browser really wasn't very good. It was big, bloated and slow. Not to mention it crashed all the time. I ended up using the old NCSA Mosaic browser most of the time, only using Netscape for web pages that Mosaic couldn't handle.

IE is not free. if you are not running MS Windows or Apple OS you can not get it without a hacked vs or an emulator must be running on your system to make the browser think it is running on something it is not.

now IE used to be freely distributed for Linux, but no more.

I like firefox and all of its neat features but the problem with firefox is the lack of activex controls.
I think what firefox needs is acivex comparable to ie and much better than mozilla activex. The mozilla activex is terrible. There are lots of websites that require such controls, and firefox is blocked from them. The ordinary desktop user doesn't really care which browser to use, but which one works all the time. As long as firefox is limited IE is going to be the dominant browser.

There is no way to buy IE and most people run Windows so most people already have IE. Effectivly its free. The only OS without it is Linux and personally I doubt most linux people care enough to make it count as a viable option if it were available to linux anyways. Either way if you are talking about most people Then they have Windows and they already have IE. Then their choices are Firefox, Netscape, Opera, or stick with IE. If they happen to like IE (which is still the most popular browser) then its fine by me.

LoL MS Windows costs between $100 - $160 USD per license. so that means IE costs that much money. if you buy MS Office you get IE included in that. MS Office, depending on the vs. you buy, can range between $100- $450 USD per license. again, this is hardly free.

just because they use IE out of ignorance, does not mean they like it by choice. Most users dont even know what IE is if you ask them. they will give some kind of i have no idea what you are talking about type response, until you tell them the big blue E, or how you get on the internet.

if you do not know there are options you are left with the only tool you have. for most users of MS Windows that means IE because there is not enough general information to educate the mass public about their options.

the same goes for linux. you start talking linux vs windows vs OSx and 90%+ of the people on the street will have no clue what you are talking about except when you say windows. why? simple, MS advertises way more then the other 2 platforms. heck even Apple does not talk about OSx, it talks about MAC and some of their built in movie making features. they dont talk about the "world of software that runs on OSx" like windows is doing and has done over the past few decades.

so i go back to my main point, EDUCATION is the key to opening the eyes of the public about their options.

I think that what you are missing is that two years ago there were almost no choice but IE. It's because of Firefox that break the default monopoly of IE that right now we can talk about options, and indeed there are, I like also Opera (whitout ads of course) and Konqueror also. If there is only one choice, can we choose?, don't think so. Firefox did that exactly!, Lleb_KCir said :

I do agree with you Lleb_Kcir, education is the key, and Firefox has ignited that, when regular users are confronted on having the choice of using Firefox or IE they will have to read about it, do some google and find out by themselves wich one they want to use.

Also, IE is not free, as in beer, at all!, it's part of the OS, it's part of Windows, if you pay for Windows therefore you are also paying for IE. It's not free, as in speech, you can't watch or modify its source code.

I say that I consider Firefox as the flagship of FOSS because it has crossed the almost impenetrable boundaries of the monopoly of Windows, it has done it with quality of software and also using the same tools of larger corporations, I'm talking about marketing, it has shown to other small projects that with imagination and ingenuity it's possible to become a real option to the users, after all, the users will decide which software to use, it's their choice.

First off when most people get a PC they get Windows with it so they are not paying $100 a license if anything the only tax you pay on it is $80. Second of all you are paying for the OS not IE, Yes IE is included but its also available on the Mac OS as well. For the most part I maintain its free. It is available to those who use the Windows and Mac OS. Likewise for Apples Safari which is available for those who use the Mac OS.

Second there was never a monopoly because there was always choices Opera was around for a while, as was netscape, and Mozilla. And yes I am aware most people were not aware of choices but thats how it works int his industry. Yes the media helped push Mozilla's Firefox sucess to where it is today and more people became educated about it y reading things like their local papers and seeing it on the news. And I agree there no education about such matters but honestly if you lets say started a class for grade school students to show them the various computing options out there and educate them at a young age how many do you think will really care? Most people juust don't care enough. They want it to work out of the box with as little work as possible. MS is never going to bundle firefox and no one should expect them to. So how do you convince more people to change? Force? I don't know.

Third no normal consumer really cares is software is open source or not. All they care about is cost. And appparently the Opera users think likewise. They didn't care if their favorite browser was not free in either way they just cared that it was what they wanted to use. So if someone wants to use IE then who care? More vulnerabilities? I think not since Friefox became so popular more and more vulnerabilities are coming out. Thats what happens when something becomes popular. People find ways to break it.

I see no reason to bounce around saying "Oh yays firefox is goig to smash IE and it will dissappear forever yay woopee" its childish and is unrealistic.People will use whats available and whats easiest. People who support FOSS and all that say its about choice. Yeah its about choice so long as its with the software you approve of. Anyways my comment was pretty much not to bash firefox as its my browser of choice but bascially I am just saying its not going to herald an end of the MS monopoly.