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View Poll Results: Ever seen a UFO?
Yes 9 33.33%
No 13 48.15%
Not sure 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2017, 07:27 PM   #76
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Geez jsbjsb001 - By now I can't help but wonder if you are serious or just trolling. The MacPherson Tapes is a known fiction move directed by Dean Alioto who freely admits it was something akin to the Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells's "War of the Worlds". So, are you serious (and a tad inept at research) or just toying with people here?
 
Old 10-10-2017, 07:50 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Well. There is one thing to be thankful for. I hope.

If ufo's had human emotions like we do. We'd be in world of Ka Ka. Because I doubt we could do anything about a pssed off alien race.

This hunt and peck and cattle mutilations and area 51's and groom lake and the quick advance of tech compared to ages past sure makes one wonder.
This post hits at least two important issues. One - that beings capable of interstellar travel would have no need to futz around with such trivial methods and actually it is doubtful we even could piss them off. That would be like us being pissed off by Tardigrades.

Two - Numerous people and governments are and have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars to discover ET. I guess they didn't get the memo they are here already
 
Old 10-11-2017, 02:17 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Geez jsbjsb001 - By now I can't help but wonder if you are serious or just trolling. The MacPherson Tapes is a known fiction move directed by Dean Alioto who freely admits it was something akin to the Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells's "War of the Worlds". So, are you serious (and a tad inept at research) or just toying with people here?
No, I'm not trolling, I'm adding information that disputes the idea that UFO's (and/or aliens) are nothing but sci-fi. I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone else), I'm only trying to dispute the idea that, it is all just made up non-sense. But, once again, you (like a lot of others) are clearly going to dispute anything that anyone even says *might* be proof of it.

And, it also provokes discussion, which is what this forum's about, is it not?

But hay, I know what I've seen like many others do, so no, I'm not just going to accept that it's just a bunch of weather balloons, swamp gas, etc, etc.

Yes, the first link was just a movie that clearly was played by people, who were just actor's, that's why the link points to http://www.imdb.com/ which clearly is a movie site. There's no dispute about that and I was not disputing that either. It clearly says in the first link I give (to http://www.imdb.com/) to you the director's name (Dean Alioto), there were movies made about 9/11 too, I suppose that was just complete fiction too? Well, you obviously believe that was quite real and did happen, given your reply's in the 9/11 thread. Therefore, just because someone does a movie about an event, it does not mean that "event" could not have happened - 9/11 DID happen, did it not?

Are there some people out there that would make up various story's (and have) about seeing such things? Yes, there are! I'm sure there's people that say that ET was reasonable for 9/11 too, you've seen some of the theory's in the 9/11 thread alone (not to mention if you done a web search on it). But, this does not mean that the idea of UFO's and/or ET, is just pure fiction.

But either way, as for the second link I give in my last post (the Youtube one), if you call that acting, with all respect, you must watch some pretty bad acting, I mean I'm sorry but, I would fire those "actors" if I were making a movie and that's the sort of "acting" I got in it.

The video is not even in-focus a lot of the time, there are clearly not working off any script and if they are, not a very good one, wouldn't you say? Which would be true if your talking about someone who's, not someone working in Hollywood, that does know how to make proper Hollywood "type" movies. Did you even watch it? (the second link that is - all of it)

And even in the Youtube video there's a disclaimer, being, "make up your own mind", so I can't and will not force anyone to believe anything... that's up to you.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 04:13 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post

But either way, as for the second link I give in my last post (the Youtube one), if you call that acting, with all respect, you must watch some pretty bad acting, I mean I'm sorry but, I would fire those "actors" if I were making a movie and that's the sort of "acting" I got in it.

The video is not even in-focus a lot of the time, there are clearly not working off any script and if they are, not a very good one, wouldn't you say? Which would be true if your talking about someone who's, not someone working in Hollywood, that does know how to make proper Hollywood "type" movies. Did you even watch it? (the second link that is - all of it)
Or conversely, they could be very good actors set up to fool people. Fooling people is an easy thing to do, it seems.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 04:41 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by petelq View Post
Or conversely, they could be very good actors set up to fool people. Fooling people is an easy thing to do, it seems.
And your saying that not only, is "someone" going to hire a bunch of "good actor's" to "fool" people, but also, to show a UFO (with what, look like a bunch of aliens) landing (or landed) in a field, somewhere in Lake County, Montana (or Minnesota for that matter). Also get a fake Sheriff (Sheriff Kent Tilson) to say in uniform "I'm not comfortable saying it was an alien abduction, but I'm not comfortable saying it wasn't, etc) and base a horror movie on it?

You would have to admit, that does sound rather bizarre, to say the very least!

First question, why would anyone go to that much trouble?
Would that really make you a lot of money, in movie ticket sales?
What other point, would there be to it? (bearing in mind that regardless of how much "proof" one offers, some people are still never going to accept it, as being proof - this very thread is a prime example of that)

But on the flip side, are there some pretty sick people out there? Yeah, of course there are!

Still does not de-bunk the video in question, sorry.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 04:55 AM   #81
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Here's maybe an even better example and there has never been any official explanation for this one (from any level of government). Make up your own mind... (and watch to whole thing before you do)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westall_UFO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aedS1Wpzips
 
Old 10-11-2017, 05:24 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
No, I'm not trolling, I'm adding information that disputes the idea that UFO's (and/or aliens) are nothing but sci-fi. I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone else), I'm only trying to dispute the idea that, it is all just made up non-sense. But, once again, you (like a lot of others) are clearly going to dispute anything that anyone even says *might* be proof of it.
If you actually think anyone devoted to Logic and reason will "dispute anything" ... you are absolutely correct UNTIL the evidence reaches some threshold of reliability. That threshold of reliability is based on The Rules of Evidence. It isn't perfect but it has the best odds of being accurate and itself reliable. I used the term threshold because confidence takes place in levels. It is almost never 0% or 100%. Once it hits 50+% it becomes a serious contender, possibly worthy of further investigation and has a chance to increase the confidence level by ruling out other likely explanations or making predictions that bear out. 1% to 50% goes from utter poppycock to speculation. These are my standards. What are yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
And, it also provokes discussion, which is what this forum's about, is it not?
Of course and you must know I'm with you on that or I wouldn't be following the thread and posting here. I actually think this thread carries some importance because the existence of extraterrestrial life is of extreme value in understanding the nature of Life itself and it matters if people lose the will to continue seeking those answers because they already have them. It also matters that people commonly don't understand the true nature of Space Travel, just how big it is, how much energy is required all the way up to an understanding of the General Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics because those mark the important leap in Science to accept the need to both doubt and enhance one's senses. Currently there is a negative reaction to Science and we even have such as Flat Earthers who apparently are not joking. They actually believe such a ridiculous fantasy and that must be met with some concern or we accept the danger of drifting back toward superstition. As Galactic Overlord I can't allow that Humour! Har. Har. (a nod to Mork and a wink to Mindy)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
But hay, I know what I've seen like many others do, so no, I'm not just going to accept that it's just a bunch of weather balloons, swamp gas, etc, etc.
Odd considering weather balloons and swamp gas are known to be real where flying saucers are not. How can you jump from "unidentified" to "I know what I've seen" so easily? If you aren't sure why settle on alien craft? Please do inform the world of what exactly made that transition from unknown to known.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Yes, the first link was just a movie that clearly was played by people, who were just actor's, that's why the link points to http://www.imdb.com/ which clearly is a movie site. There's no dispute about that and I was not disputing that either. It clearly says in the first link I give (to http://www.imdb.com/) to you the director's name (Dean Alioto), there were movies made about 9/11 too, I suppose that was just complete fiction too? Well, you obviously believe that was quite real and did happen, given your reply's in the 9/11 thread. Therefore, just because someone does a movie about an event, it does not mean that "event" could not have happened - 9/11 DID happen, did it not?
There is a world of difference between a camera recording an event however it unfolds, and one that has a Directror, hired Actors and a script and is edited. However loose that script may be to allow for improvisation to add a sense of reality (bad bits can always be removed when a story whose end you know is to be told) that's the difference. Is the camera operator just neutral even if moved by the event as in the famous newscast of the Hindenburg disaster or is the cameraman controlling or altering what is seen and heard? Is it a production or a record?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Are there some people out there that would make up various story's (and have) about seeing such things? Yes, there are! I'm sure there's people that say that ET was reasonable for 9/11 too, you've seen some of the theory's in the 9/11 thread alone (not to mention if you done a web search on it). But, this does not mean that the idea of UFO's and/or ET, is just pure fiction.
Absolutely undeniable. Proof of some over zealous and/or unscrupulous supporters does not negate the possibility of itself. It doesn't disprove the general idea but it IS proof we need to judge carefully every individual piece ow would-be evidence with the awareness that we can be fooled, especially when there is desire and money in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post

But either way, as for the second link I give in my last post (the Youtube one), if you call that acting, with all respect, you must watch some pretty bad acting, I mean I'm sorry but, I would fire those "actors" if I were making a movie and that's the sort of "acting" I got in it.

The video is not even in-focus a lot of the time, there are clearly not working off any script and if they are, not a very good one, wouldn't you say? Which would be true if your talking about someone who's, not someone working in Hollywood, that does know how to make proper Hollywood "type" movies. Did you even watch it? (the second link that is - all of it)

And even in the Youtube video there's a disclaimer, being, "make up your own mind", so I can't and will not force anyone to believe anything... that's up to you.
That, "The MacPherson Tapes" is the film that was directed. Do you understand that term? It was Art, not factual. Part of that Art, like "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast was pretending for a time that it was real both as an exercise and a bid for attention and acclaim.

and Yes! I did watch it and right up until the walk through the woods found it quite convincing because I was unaware of it's existence, so thank you for that BUT then I researched it and immediately discovered that is was directed and scripted with some room for improv like better movies commonly are. For example I was very impressed with the reality of people at a table all talking on top of each other, none waiting for "their turn" as in a Shakespearean play where the structure is absolutely concrete and never changing excepting inflection and expressions.

One of my nephews while in his early 20s used to be fond of saying "Perception is Reality" and unless that is meant as an ironic, figurative comment or a warning that it is easy to jump to inaccurate conclusions, it is entirely a falsehood. Then one day he had me view a video of David Blaine, street performer, doing his Levitation Bit about which he was extremely excited. A few days later he learned it was probably a Bit and said "I hope it isn't because I want to believe it" and I was just as impressed with his clear self-knowledge as I was concerned that he believed his eyes on first viewing. Within a week it was confirmed that it was done ion the manner of a magic trick relying on crafty deception. He grew up a few inches that day and it wasn't at first pleasant much like learning Santa Claus isn't real just because people say he is and relies on the Believer not understanding just how many chimneys exist and that their isn't enough time for flying reindeer to visit them all in years, let alone one night. It's a difficult lesson. I'm 70 years old and I can see the instant that I learned there was no Santa and feel some of my crestfallen state still to this day in my little "mind movie" of memory. It was an important day in my life... difficult, but valuable. I hope it was (and still is) for you as well.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-11-2017 at 05:27 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 05:33 AM   #83
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Exclamation

Reminds me of HS chemistry where my class learned about capitalism and loopholes* in "laws" &c, they can put "no fat" on the front as long as all the different FATS are listed on the back!!! Would Roswell have touri$m*, what else is there?

Add:
not to exclude all but every second there's another .sucker who may or maynot love* being one...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 10-11-2017 at 05:40 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 06:16 AM   #84
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Odd considering weather balloons and swamp gas are known to be real where flying saucers are not
I also know what I saw and heard, along with my brothers, swap gas and balloons don't make humming noises.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 06:39 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Here's maybe an even better example and there has never been any official explanation for this one (from any level of government). Make up your own mind... (and watch to whole thing before you do)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westall_UFO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aedS1Wpzips
It is my considered opinion that you are correct in concluding the Westall High School event is a good example of actual UFO sightings at least in the sense of "unidentified" as well as exposing what seems to be quite reliable that Government and Military were involved in suppressing serious investigation into such occurrences.

However the fact remains they were successful. Anybody who even might know what occurred apparently won't talk and it's safe to say the populace of the school and surrounding neighborhood saw something but nobody has a clue as to what it actually was. It also displays the tendency for many to conclude almost automatically that such things are of an ET origin rather than any other explanation. Additionally the witnesses are seen to be quite prejudiced with even deeper agenda/preconceptions in that some are said to have not only assumed they were ET but that they were hostile and it "was the end of the world" while others ran toward the object(s) and wanted to witness more, assuming apparently that there was no immediate threat.

I have no problem accepting this as an unexplained mystery but I see no compelling reason whatsoever to leap from that to any conclusion at all, and way low even on that list is Interstellar Craft piloted by visiting aliens. I have no problem speculating that it is likely that other lifeforms exist and that some of them may be more advanced than we and even have transportation means that we don't. I have extreme problems with FTL travel and those who possibly have it, visiting here. Simpler explanations are far more likely and some mysteries may never be solved. That combination makes it a "write off", at best fun to speculate about with no conclusion possible.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 06:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by colorpurple21859 View Post
I also know what I saw and heard, along with my brothers, swap gas and balloons don't make humming noises.
OK so you may possibly have ruled out balloons and swamp gas (although how much do you know about them to conclude some don't hum?) but why stop there? Why is the next thing on your list ET followed by full stop? You certainly know that you saw and heard something but you don't know what it was. To leap from not knowing to any conclusion is simply fanciful and irresponsible. Just leave it at "I don't know but it was a fascinating phenomenon and a moving experience", That is solid and interesting.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-11-2017 at 06:50 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 06:55 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
If you actually think anyone devoted to Logic and reason will "dispute anything" ... you are absolutely correct UNTIL the evidence reaches some threshold of reliability. That threshold of reliability is based on The Rules of Evidence. It isn't perfect but it has the best odds of being accurate and itself reliable. I used the term threshold because confidence takes place in levels. It is almost never 0% or 100%. Once it hits 50+% it becomes a serious contender, possibly worthy of further investigation and has a chance to increase the confidence level by ruling out other likely explanations or making predictions that bear out. 1% to 50% goes from utter poppycock to speculation. These are my standards. What are yours?
Well speaking generally, I do agree with you, for the very most part. I also think that the "threshold" is probably where a lot of people (and maybe us) start differing. In the legal sense I do agree with you 100%, in relation to "evidence". But it is still a very valid and correct point to make and I could not agree more with you, in making it.

Quote:
Of course and you must know I'm with you on that or I wouldn't be following the thread and posting here. I actually think this thread carries some importance because the existence of extraterrestrial life is of extreme value in understanding the nature of Life itself and it matters if people lose the will to continue seeking those answers because they already have them. It also matters that people commonly don't understand the true nature of Space Travel, just how big it is, how much energy is required all the way up to an understanding of the General Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics because those mark the important leap in Science to accept the need to both doubt and enhance one's senses. Currently there is a negative reaction to Science and we even have such as Flat Earthers who apparently are not joking. They actually believe such a ridiculous fantasy and that must be met with some concern or we accept the danger of drifting back toward superstition. As Galactic Overlord I can't allow that Humour! Har. Har. (a nod to Mork and a wink to Mindy)
I glad you agree (and thank you for your interest and discussing the matter with me, as well as your time in doing so) with my point in "provoking discussion" and that you think this thread carries importance (and agree). I also firmly believe that the idea that we are not alone in this universe, is very important (and I'm glad we see eye to eye on that particular point). I also think it's very important to continue to try and find answers (as difficult as it is).

Quote:
Odd considering weather balloons and swamp gas are known to be real where flying saucers are not. How can you jump from "unidentified" to "I know what I've seen" so easily? If you aren't sure why settle on alien craft? Please do inform the world of what exactly made that transition from unknown to known.
I think you've mis-understood the point I was trying to make there (maybe my fault, in which case, I'll cop that), the point was that I simply don't believe that all UFO's have earthly explanations associated with them. A LOT would, I'm sure, but I do find *some* cases quite compelling. But yes, I do agree that until one can say for 100% certainty that x,z or z was x,y or z, it's a UFO and therefore "unidentified". But that said, yes I do believe in once again **some** cases, in all likelihood, it *probably* was an ET craft of some kind.

Quote:
There is a world of difference between a camera recording an event however it unfolds, and one that has a Directror, hired Actors and a script and is edited. However loose that script may be to allow for improvisation to add a sense of reality (bad bits can always be removed when a story whose end you know is to be told) that's the difference. Is the camera operator just neutral even if moved by the event as in the famous newscast of the Hindenburg disaster or is the cameraman controlling or altering what is seen and heard? Is it a production or a record?
Well, generally speaking once again, yes, I'm sure it's quite possible to do all of the above and I'm certainly not trying to suggest otherwise, absolutely!

But, I do have trouble believing that the video I was referring to is made up. Is it possible? Sure. Like most other things. Believe it or not, I do not only agree with you on that particular point, I can understand why you would think that. Let's face it, like you, I don't want to just believe something just because it's in a video, I think your right about that, absolutely.

Quote:
Absolutely undeniable. Proof of some over zealous and/or unscrupulous supporters does not negate the possibility of itself. It doesn't disprove the general idea but it IS proof we need to judge carefully every individual piece ow would-be evidence with the awareness that we can be fooled, especially when there is desire and money in it.

That, "The MacPherson Tapes" is the film that was directed. Do you understand that term? It was Art, not factual. Part of that Art, like "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast was pretending for a time that it was real both as an exercise and a bid for attention and acclaim.
Yes, I would at least like to think I can understand the difference between something directed and scripted. No need to be concerned there.

Quote:
and Yes! I did watch it and right up until the walk through the woods found it quite convincing because I was unaware of it's existence, so thank you for that BUT then I researched it and immediately discovered that is was directed and scripted with some room for improv like better movies commonly are. For example I was very impressed with the reality of people at a table all talking on top of each other, none waiting for "their turn" as in a Shakespearean play where the structure is absolutely concrete and never changing excepting inflection and expressions.

One of my nephews while in his early 20s used to be fond of saying "Perception is Reality" and unless that is meant as an ironic, figurative comment or a warning that it is easy to jump to inaccurate conclusions, it is entirely a falsehood. Then one day he had me view a video of David Blaine, street performer, doing his Levitation Bit about which he was extremely excited. A few days later he learned it was probably a Bit and said "I hope it isn't because I want to believe it" and I was just as impressed with his clear self-knowledge as I was concerned that he believed his eyes on first viewing. Within a week it was confirmed that it was done ion the manner of a magic trick relying on crafty deception. He grew up a few inches that day and it wasn't at first pleasant much like learning Santa Claus isn't real just because people say he is and relies on the Believer not understanding just how many chimneys exist and that their isn't enough time for flying reindeer to visit them all in years, let alone one night. It's a difficult lesson. I'm 70 years old and I can see the instant that I learned there was no Santa and feel some of my crestfallen state still to this day in my little "mind movie" of memory. It was an important day in my life... difficult, but valuable. I hope it was (and still is) for you as well.
Well, I'm not going to lie, I did not know of the video's existence either until I done the research about the movie, I recorded onto my PC (in the first link of post #75). So I'm glad I found it though my research too. Speaking in general once again, I'm glad you have an interest (and hope that will continue) in this thread.

I do very much also enjoy talking to you, and hope that also continues. Without trying to go too far off-topic, I think it goes to show that learning on this site isn't limited to just technical matters. As, I've learned from this non-technical forum, almost as much as I've learned from the technical forums. Thank You for your input in general once again!

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 10-11-2017 at 06:57 AM. Reason: "thank" not "think"/typo
 
Old 10-11-2017, 10:53 AM   #88
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Why is the next thing on your list ET followed by full stop
They beamed me up and did sexual experiments on me, I've been telling you for years their coming back . Seriously, it was you classic white glowing flying saucer circling just above tree tops, later on saw it flying higher up. The saucer wasn't very large. I was at a church on a Saturday night about mid seventies waiting for my aunt to do whatever she was doing, out in the country side not near any airports. I was looking down at the rocks on the gravel driveway when I first heard it. I even doubted what I saw years later, until my brother recently confirmed he remembered seeing it. In the eighties I told it to someone that at one time was involved in high tech classified research and he didn't act surprised. In so many words he said that people would be surprised at the things that the government has developed.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 12:55 PM   #89
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Some "magicians" have non-suckers in the audience others are just blissful...
 
Old 10-11-2017, 06:41 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorpurple21859 View Post
>snip> In so many words he said that people would be surprised at the things that the government has developed.
That's kind of my point. There are more believable explanations than alien visitors who come all this way to make circular impressions on plant life and mutilate cows.... and occasionally indulge in anal probing of random humans.... and mostly male humans at that.
 
  


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