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View Poll Results: Ever seen a UFO?
Yes 9 33.33%
No 13 48.15%
Not sure 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-08-2017, 09:41 AM   #46
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice View Post
a person saying something directly sitting on the witness stand is not hearsay
you have people like police officers ,air line pilots military people the list goes on and on on video as just some of the witness
whole cities full of people

videos work it court as long as there is someone there to say yes this is exactly what I saw

some of them have left foot prints
some of them have left radioactive burn spots

BUT
for those who believe no proof is needed
for those don't believe no proof is enough
I'm not certain all you stated above is true (such as verified footprints) but one thing I know is wrong is the last 2 lines. I would dearly love to know 1) That intelligent life exists for certain, elsewhere 2) that FTL travel is actually possible, and 3) that something is so special about Life of any kind that it is somehow worth it to visit here from what must be unimaginably immense distances. So if there is even a 50/50 chance it is so I certainly want to hear about it and I'm wide open to the possibilty once something... anything improves the horrendous odds we see now.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 10:30 AM   #47
enorbet
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jsbjsb001 - Yes. I am saying those videos are not conclusive evidence because they are not corroborated nor is any explanation made except "Obviously alien craft" when it is not obvious at all. Nowhere did I see a pilot or passenger, let alone an alien, so how does one conclude it is in fact a "craft" and not just an object or photographic artifact or even a hoax as so many have proven to be? There has been no testing that I know of for the above linked videos to verify the recording medium was not doctored or that, as you mentioned, CGI wasn't employed and the shoot staged.

Perhaps you agree with rob.ice, above, that these videos and alleged footprints, etc are admissible in a court of law. So here is some law, at least US Federal Law regarding evidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by findlaw.com - Summary of the Rules of Evidence
II. THE FOUR TYPES OF EVIDENCE.

There are four traditional types of evidence: real, demonstrative, documentary, and testimonial. Some rules of evidence apply to all four types and some apply only to some or one of them. First, we will cover general rules of admissibility that apply to all evidence. Then, we will cover foundational rules that relate to specific kinds of evidence. Finally, we will cover some special topics, like the form of examination, the hearsay rule, and the lay opinion rule, that frequently cause problems in the courtroom.

III. GENERAL RULES OF ADMISSIBILITY.

The basic prerequisites of admissibility are relevance, materiality, and competence. In general, if evidence is shown to be relevant, material, and competent, and is not barred by an exclusionary rule, it is admissible. Evid. Code 351; Fed. Rules Evid. 402.
Hopefully you can see the obvious lack of meeting of those requirements on several grounds.

Regarding Government cover-up - Under some circumstances, mainly isolated conditions and few "loose ends", truth can be contained and a diversionary story fabricated. I suppose the government might assume enough people would "freak out" that hiding the truth of ET would possibly seem wiser than the maturity engendered by knowing such an important fundamental fact about our Universe, but they can't possibly hope to cover up every case for long. The US has had a decent share of heroic whistleblowers so that is a distinct possibility as well. All it takes is one person, just like Snowden. This Truth is just too big to contain assuming some alien(s) are physically visiting us and not watching from outside the orbit of Pluto.

Also, please try to remember when you are analyzing such data the unbelievably extreme odds against such travel even being possible. Even if possible I see no scientific basis for such extreme energy requirements being easy and cheap to create/harness. We are talking about quantities of energy in the same league as our Sun! over an extremely long period, possibly billions of years! if even that is enough. Remember too that we are talking about Faster Than Light, as mere Light Speed is just way too slow, and nobody has a real clue that such a thing is even possible, let alone likely.

Now I grant you I have read about primitive tribes in remote places that upon seeing an airplane fly over assumed it must be Gods at work because nothing in their experience led them to believe a man could fly.... even with the help of a contraption. Yes, we are somewhat analogous to those primitives BUT we do have actual Science, an ever-growing, cross-checked body of knowledge about events, scales and forces way beyond our simple earthly and sensory experience. Those primitives knew things close to the Earth and sensory experience we may have forgotten because we no longer need to know them but we have an understanding of the hows and whys, on micro and macro levels not just the whats within the tiny realm of unaided senses.

In short, it is one thing to notice birds can fly and we can't. It's quite another to understand how birds manage to fly, the nature of drag and lift and how anything might fly...., and then build a few million of them that do. In truth the airplane is just a short distance from those primitives compared to the distance between us and FTL travel and not by a little bit but by many orders of magnitude.

Consider Occam's razor, that the simplest explanation is commonly the best bet. Why would anyone bet on such horrendously bad odds. As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinairy claims require extraordinairy evidence". This is indeed extraordinairy yet even basic sketchy evidence does not yet exist. Nothing is firm. Nothing is repeatable or testable. Few bother to verify undoctored sources. At the very best, it is eye-witness accounts in extreme emotional circumstances and we know for a fact how unreliable that can be so once again, bad odds. I don't buy lottery tickets and I don't have any confidence in the existence of aliens visiting Earth, but there are ever increasing numbers who would welcome good evidence, preferably an actual landing in a public place with International News coverage of a tete-a-tete, followed by an explanation of how they survived technology and what technology makes interstellar travel possible..
 
Old 10-08-2017, 11:43 AM   #48
jsbjsb001
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Well enorbet, as far as what rob.rice has said, I do agree with your reply to him. (your first reply to him, if nothing else)

My point was not in relation to that, in was in relation to as I said in my previous post; We *assume* and/or *think* have a firm understand of something call science. Now the problem is that not only are new scientific discoveries are being made all the time, by extension, it suggests that while we may know some things, we by no means know everything.

Many scientists themselves would tell you that something similar to, science is about continually discovering things we did not know before. An example of what I'm saying there would be that, back in the day people thought if you sailed too far out in to the ocean, you would fall off the "edge" of the world. But of course then, someone thought hang on, if the earth is round, you would just go around the world instead.

Also, if we don't question things, how do we learn more, make new scientific discoveries? Well we would still be rubbing sticks together to make fire, if we didn't question things, would we not?

I'm also certain that if you said back in he day, we are going to land on the moon one day, many people would have laughed at you, well guess what? First the Soviet Union did it and then the US thought, well if they can, so can we! And did it!

The point being, is that we do *not* know all there is to know about a lot of scientific matters. Which of course explains why we cannot travel to other planets. BUT, we cannot possibly say that inter-planetary travel is not possible, yes based on what we DO currently know, we do not have the understanding nor the technology to do it ourselves.

This does *not* mean that there ain't other "beings" out there, that DO have such an understanding and the technology to do it. Also, we cannot prove there are no other "beings" out there, that DO have such an understanding and technology to do it. Most scientists also accept that there is more likely than not other life out there, including intelligent life.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 01:56 PM   #49
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If the stars go on forever,,, likely I believe, then there's life out there... also believing a solar systems like a blooming seed in a see.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 10-08-2017 at 08:51 PM.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 02:18 PM   #50
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What we're not considering is that the universe may not be as big as we think. I forget the speed of light but it's many hundreds (or is it many thousands?) of miles per second and the distance of the stars is measured in light years so the source of the light we see now may no longer exist and could extinguished thousands of years ago.
Consider that. Our insignicant corner of the universe may be all that's left!

Last edited by petelq; 10-08-2017 at 02:20 PM.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 02:44 PM   #51
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You do not need physics, not chemistry, nor biology. All you need is people who let you believe that your believes are right. Whatever you believe.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 03:46 PM   #52
jamison20000e
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Time has within it facts, more as reality.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 05:20 PM   #53
BenTrabetere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Well, if your saying that the videos in question are not "evidence" that ET exists/has been to this planet (for whatever reasons), strictly speaking (and without an ET saying, yes we have visited), then yes, particularly given (as cited) you don't actually see any ET's, then yes, you would be right in saying that.

I think there are at least a couple of issues here;

A) What would you call "evidence" of ET existence/visits to this planet?
The "visits" would need to be at public venues, during the middle of the day, where a large number of people are present, and at several locations. The arrivals and departures should be witnessed, there should be interaction between the ETs and the witnesses, and the ETs should leave something behind for scientists to examine.

Buzzing a couple of drunk fishermen on a lonely stretch of river in the middle of the night really does not qualify. (A few days from today will be the 44th anniversary of the Pascagoula Abduction.)
 
Old 10-08-2017, 08:08 PM   #54
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I think I tripped a trigger. My isp is down and my phone skills are non existent. I gotta watch out I guess what I say about ufo's vs the govt.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 08:49 PM   #55
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LOL

I text the word "nukes" too much, should I worry,,, I guess not with the powers that be... Marijuana!
 
Old 10-08-2017, 10:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
ping rokytnji
Ok back on laptop using my phone as a router. Can't keep us hard core Linux dudes down I guess. Though my data contract will shut me down after a while.

For your 1st 3 paragraphs enorbet. Fold space baby. I aint that clueless. So what we aint figured that out yet. Or have we? Sure would not know since that crap is top secret stuff.

Our planet has about 4 billion years on it. Common sense figures there are older planets than ours that support intelligent life. That think way way different than us. Funny part is. There are clues if you look for them.

" We are made in God's image " Being stardust myself. I kinda sorta wonder about that one.

Last paragraph?

Quote:
ut even the best accounts I've read mentioned only oddly light materials with strange markings
Not on death bed confessions I read.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/...ession-Area-51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswel...ed_confessions

I know. It is hard to baffle us country boys with bull pucky.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 02:32 AM   #57
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Ok back on laptop using my phone as a router. Can't keep us hard core Linux dudes down I guess. Though my data contract will shut me down after a while. ...
Don't worry they haven't shut me down yet, so if you don't hear from me... nah, just kidding!

Quote:
Not on death bed confessions I read.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/...ession-Area-51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswel...ed_confessions

I know. It is hard to baffle us country boys with bull pucky.
Here's the full interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQH11GW7w8Q

This is an interesting point though, why would someone who's on their deathbed make up something like that?

It doesn't seem likely to me that someone on their deathbed is going to be looking for fame for one. And if you only have months to live, how are you going to spend a lot of money, who's going to give you a million dollars for saying it, to begin with?

Given the above, personally I'd say it's more likely that he's telling the truth.

It also says that the President may not necessarily be told, if indeed there was aliens and/or UFO's at Area 51.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 03:47 AM   #58
enorbet
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What?!? Do you guys even pay attention to the 'evidence" you link? OK here we go.

That video on YouTube begins with "at an undisclosed location", has no names for the "alleged CIA agent" plus he claims to have commonly used "artificial names" making everything he says untraceable and unverifiable. The interviewer is not even remotely an objective journalist at one point leading the alleged agent with "Surely President Eisenhower knew UFOS are real, knew aliens are real..." revealing not only his bias but very likely his agenda. Oh and BTW the film begins with walking ino what looks like a hospital or Doctor's office but nobody is seen entering the room which doesn't look at all like a hospital room nor would a hospital allow some causal, filmed interview for public dissemination to take place in one of their rooms without clearance, requiring names and credentials.

Also while it is referred to as a "deathbed confession" that is not an accurate depiction as he is not in danger of imminent death and states that he hopes some procedure will save him that is already scheduled to save him from possible kidney failure in several months. If he really wanted to get a load off his chest why didn't he contact some major, accredited, well-known news reporter instead of some prejudiced nobody? Even the posted link to the text calls the interviewee "alleged agent" since nobody can confirm who he was or that he had the access he claimed.

Come on guys, this man got a 3 x 5 card with a mathematical formula for Gravity Reversal Power, apparently known since 1950 and in almost 70 years not one Gravity Powered device has ever been witnessed. Can you imagine the trillions of dollars such a thing would be worth? Do you not think such technology with such powerful motivation would not be exploited by someone in 70 years? Not only this phenomenally powerful engine but the entire craft supposedly that carried what? 5 individuals and all their supplies to traverse countless light years over who knows how long a voyage weighed in at less than 1/2 that of a full dress Harley??? I call bullshit! and of the highest order of stink.

The 2nd link is important enough to actually quote here for all to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia - Roswell UFO Incident
Deathbed confessions

As time wore on, it became harder for Roswell researchers to find new evidence to publish; there was potential though in the prospect of deathbed confessions from those originally involved in 1947.[64] In 2007 Donald Schmitt and Tom Carey published the book Witness to Roswell, which prominently featured a document said to be a sworn affidavit written by Walter Haut, who had written the first Army press release about the Roswell crash in 1947.[65] The document, apparently kept under seal until Haut's death in 2005, described how the 1947 crash debris had been discussed by high-ranking staff and how Haut had seen alien bodies.[65][66] The claims, however, drew an unimpressed response even from ufologists: Dennis Balthaser said that the document was not written by Haut, and that by 2000 Haut's mental state was such he could not recall basic details about his past, making the detail contained in the affidavit seem dubious.[65] Physicist and skeptic Dave Thomas commented: "Is Roswell still the 'best' UFO incident? If it is, UFO proponents should be very, very worried."[65
As I've said I would LOVE to know such things are real and welcome any real evidence that even leans that way but for the life of me I do not understand why apparent believers will resort to lies and fakery for evidence if they actually believe it to be true.... unless it's simply that there can be a lot of money in Alien/UFO mythology. Unscrupulous self proclaimed 'doctor" con men have been selling snake oil to rubes for thousands of years and apparently it isn't anywhere near at an end.

Finally, to jsbjsb001, Science sand scientists freely accept a given that it is not possible to know everything but that does not rule out knowing some things with an extremely high degree of likelihood. Quantum Theory states that everything is a matter of possibilities and for example, though unimaginably remote, it cannot be said for certain that we won't wake up tomorrow on Jupiter... but the odds against it are eminently worth betting on. Even further I will bet my life savings that no human being is going to stand on Planet Earth, flap his arms, and take off and fly from his own power.... not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Similarly, though rather silly since I surely won't be around to hear "I told ya so!", I am betting FTL travel is hundreds, if not thousands of years away IF it is even possible EVER.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-09-2017 at 04:00 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 04:26 AM   #59
jsbjsb001
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Well I'm sorry enorbet, that you will never be convinced, that said, the fact guy is walking into what appears to be a doctor's office, supports the idea, he's being treated for a serious illness. The guy can barely talk, which further supports he's being treated for a serious illness of some description.

Ether way, it still does not explain why someone in that position (or that old), has any reason to be making up such things.

Furthermore, anyone can sit there and say "show us the proof, the alien themselves, etc" followed by, if you can't, it cannot have any truth to it. You don't need to work for the CIA, to be able to do that.

Also, he's far from the only person that's made such claims. He's one in a list of people, Robert Scott Lazar is another such person, in that list. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

This further supports what the guy said.
 
Old 10-09-2017, 04:58 AM   #60
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Why would someone* dieing* make something up puzzles me, ever hear of heaven?

Also; at the start of the video the actor from vikings shakes the "old man's" hand, an actor‽

Here's a more down to earth theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHQOX8EVNmE
 
  


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