Engineer / Techie ?
 

I probably seem really stupid asking this. But what is the difference between a engineer and a technician?
I have been doing temp contracts for over a year now and still do not know the answer. Someone suggested that the two are the same thing. Someone else suggested that techies work with software aswell as hardware, which I think is crap. I also heard that engineers install hardware while techies troubleshoot it.
Is there an actual difference between the roles? I know MCSA and MCSE aswell as CCNA make someone qualified as an engineer, but what qualifies a technician?
In other words what is the difference between an Engineer and a Technician. I have asked the question a dozen times in my life and neither me or anyone else seems to know.

I think the dictionary terms describe them well:

a technitian is an expert using tools...

an engineer is an expert MAKING tools...

In break/fix everyone is called an Engineer, but nobody makes anything. I certainly could not make a new CPU at home or in the field, unless I have a hundred years to do it.

I hear people talking about "Sanitation Engineers" (Cleaners, Garbage Collectors, etc), "Sales Engineers" (Sales Men) among others.

Is this only in Australia, or is it imported from elsewhere. I just think it is amusing, as I am a third year Computer Engineering Student :)

--Ian

Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs both made the first Apple computer in their garage, didn't take them 100 years.. ;)

But to be an engineer like the definition says doesn't mean it has to be high tech, designing microchips and such.

The terms seem to be pretty much interchangeable and fuzzy at best. Typical IT people serve so many roles and "wear so many different hats" that one term doesn't seem to be better than the other. My job title is Technical Specialist. I personally like the sound of "Engineer" better than "Technician" but it doesn't matter much. All the confusion makes it harder to classify yourself or what you are looking for when doing a job search....

In the main contract I am doing now, I am a field service engineer. In the weekend project I also have the same position. Everytime a team of engineers mess up, they always get a technician to sort out the problem. I guess buidling chip+pin tills is engineering and fixing them is techie work. Makes sense.
In England we don't call rubbish men engineers and we do not call sales men engineers. I thought america was bad for political correctness, surprised that a land where indigenous population are made to live in poverty, would stand up so much for human rights that it will spin words to make toilet cleaners be called engineers, while the Australian natives live in poverty with no freedom.

Are you just here to start flame wars? How did this go from asking what the difference between an engineer and technician are to what you just posted?

You've been warned way too many times and are falling over the edge now by some dental floss string.. I'd have to tell you know to watch what your getting into or your going to lose privileges to this site.

If you want to discuss this any further, email me, another mod or Jeremy the site admin. Do not let this turn into the discussion you apparently want to turn it into or it will be closed and you will strike out. You have no more warnings left, I'm making this your last one.

Regards.

i'd like to add a sub-topic to the discussion...

the sub-topic is "certified engineers"... differences between engineers and certified engineers...

doesn't someone need to have a college/university degree in engineering to be an engineer?? i think that applies to any field (not just IT), right?? or is IT an exception??

the certification would then be an "extra" that the engineer can obtain...

but i see lots of people that don't have a college degree, they only have a certification and they write themselves down as engineers on their resumes, or they refer to themselves as engineers when they talk to people, etc...

does anybody else feel this is a little weird??

i mean, i've seen pure-bred MCSEs, and they are really at the technical level, not at the engineering level... MCSE means you can do windows system/network administration, yet for some reason the title is pumped-up to "engineer" status somehow (marketing reasons?)...

of course, an MCSE could have a college degree also, in which case his engineering status doesn't depend on on the certification, which seems more normal...

on the other hand, it seems that this doesn't appy to IT technitians... i mean, i don't think you need to have a college degree to be a technitian, right?? please correct me if i'm wrong, actually, please take the tone of my entire post as more of a question than a statement... i think that MCSE would be a decent certification for a windoze technitian...

as for linux and unix, it seems certifications are more down-to-earth... they more clearly separate the certified technitians from the adminsitrators and the engineers, i think...

also, the IT field is way different from the others.. i mean, to be a even a (non-IT) technitian at a fortune 500 (for example) company you'd probably need some kinda degree... like, you wouldn't be able to be an aircraft landing-gear technitian without some kinda degree, right?? you don't get the job because you googled for two years about aircraft landing gear and then paid 300 bucks for a test...

another sub-topic to this one is liability and accountability and stuff... like, how you NEED to be a doctor to see patients, yet you don't NEED to be an engineer to see computers, etc...

this is indeed an interesting, blurry topic... comments anyone??

i can make a computer in half an hour, but i cant make every individual part myself.

a technitian can put together a pc, but an engineer can design the pc's components...

In the US at least, it is illegal to use the word "engineer" in your job title unless you are a professionaly certified engineer. (Much the same way that a doctor or lawyer must be certified before they can practice). Engineers are responsible for building computer systems, building bridges, airplanes, electronic devices, chemical compounds, and anything else you could think of, so imagine what would happen if a punk out of high school who took a physics course decided to start calling himself an engineer? Faulty products would start injuring or even killing people left and right.

To become a certified professional engineer, you first must obtain a Bachelor's of Science in an engineering field. Next you must take the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) Exam (formerly called the Engineer in Training Exam, or EIT). The test is 8 hours long and divided into two parts. The first part is a general engineering exam and covers topics in physics, chemistry, mathematics, statics, dynamics, hydromechanics, themrodynamics, electronic circuits, computer systems, civil engineering, engineering economics, and engineering ethics (I might have forgotten one or two subjects). For the second part of the exam you may choose to either take an exam specific to your major (like electrical engineering), or take another more advanced general exam.

The third requirement is that you spend 4 years working in the industry practicing engineering (but I believe you must be supervised by a professional engineer, and you can't put the word engineer in your title yet either). After that you take the Professional Engineering (PE) Exam and if you pass that, you are finally granted your Professional Engineer's license.


Well I hope you can see a little bit of a "real-world" example of how an engineer is much, much different from a technician. I have completed the first two steps to getting a PE (bachelors + passed the FE exam in April.....god that was such a long exam). Personally, if anyone called me a technician or someone called themselves an "engineer" when they aren't even close to being one (Sales, Marketing, PR people), I would be pretty upset. I take pride in being an engineer (oops, well not yet but soon :D) and I take pride in what engineers do for the people of the world. I don't think we are respected enough in fact, and those morons in the government should bow down and submit. Engineers should rule the world! :cool: (yes I'm being somewhat sarcastic)

Calling yourself an Engineer when you don't have the 4 year diploma from a university is insulting to everyone who is a real engineer. A lot of sweat and blood goes into getting the diploma and when you see idiots with 5 or 6 certs calling themselves computer engineers it makes your blood boil.

Most engineers with a background in electrical engineering or computer engineering could easily design a simple processor in a day or perhaps two.

Now to quote a famous engineer "Engineers create that which did not exist"

Dude, what the heck is this supposed to be??? I live in australia and I think you need to catch up on the facts and history before spurting off rot like this trolling here! I have put your handle on my avoid list, thanks.

Chill out.

Read my reply above, we don't need to make personal statements against others, especially since I've already warned and dealt with him.

Regards

My appologies, our posts crossed. I think and I had this page open for some time. You will note from my posts on this forum I am only here to help new linux users... But I do tend to speak my mind...

Sorry tricky, I just can't help myself sometimes. I have not tried to make a flame war. The post about australia was a sidenote relating a post another user made.
Back to Engineering. I guess, if you need a degree to be an engineer in America then if you are a criminal in your early years and mess up your college course, you have no chance of doing what you want later on in life unless you drive a taxi for five years to pay for a degree or have rich parents.
I have never seen the need for paper work. Being in my early twenties, I am only doing temp contracts at the moments. If a company is not happy with my work it can fire me. Why do I need to spend a fortune for a peice of paper, when I can learn everything in the field.
I do not know what makes a motherboard tick, but I know when it is faulty and needs replacing. I expect in five years I will be able to build a CPU in my garage and a pentium class motherboard in maybe ten. Why should I slave away for years getting a degree when I can get the same money from the certs I have now.
Someone coming out of uni is not likely to be that knowledgable, because most uni students spend most of their time smoking dope or contemplating life.
Being a non uni young guy with comptia certs, I spend all my awake time learning, does a uni student?
Anyway, my main point, I screwed up my college and uni years, but I do not accept a hirarchy of life where those that did well when they were young should have a step ahead of those that made it later in life. I will get an IT degree when I have time. I just want to wait till I can afford a Lamborgini before I bother with all that.
Tricky, if I am breaking any rules then please explain it to me. I do not see mention of making flame wars in this forums rules. I did not even try to start a flamer, I was just a bit distracted.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/rules.php

No offense but you write like your 14. Directed at Hades.

I'm afraid to inform you that your expectations are unrealistic. :eek: Just because you can find out when something is broken doesn't mean that it will lead you to discover how it is built. Does an experienced garage mechanic know how to design a custom V8 engine from scratch? The answer is no.

I don't know what you mean by "I can build a CPU in my garage". A simple CPU (like for a small calculator) almost anyone with half a brain could design. A VLSI CPU like the Pentium or Athlon processors are designed by hundreds of engineers and a single person couldn't hope to design one by themselves if they spent a lifetime attempting to do so. Do you have any knowledge of how embedded electronic circuits are manufactured? Unless you have a multi-million dollar cleaning lab filled with sophisticated equipment in your garage (which would have to be able to fit at least 20 cars when empty), you are dreaming.


Not all university students smoke dope and contemplate life, especially not engineering student. And yes I did spend all my awake time learning. I can also assure you that during those 4 years I stayed awake much longer than you. :p


So does that mean you were one of those students that smoked pot and contemplated life when you were in university? :rolleyes: What do you mean you can't accept that those who did well when they were young have a step ahead? Of course they have a step ahead! If they didn't, then what would be the reason why anyone would try to do well in school? That's not to say that you can't catch up and surpass those people though, given enough time and effort on your part.



Sorry if I'm adding fuel to the fire here tricky, but I just couldn't let some of these comments pass.

Well don't, HadesThunder is on thin ice already. This is only going to provoke him and possibly get him banned. Bad move IMHO and you should have read my other replies and not provoke others who are given warnings. And this goes for all members, don't do this if you see someone that has been publicly warned. If it so much makes you feel you need to post, I rather see you hold back and not post, move on to the next thread.

Regards.

That doesn't apply to things like "network engineer," only engineering disciplines in which a certification exists (mechanical, civil, etc.) I think of engineers as those who design or create something, and technicians as those who install/fix/maintain it. But that's not strictly a dictionary def.

I am not provoked, by Roots. His points were valid and I hate to be seen as a loose cannon.
Stack. I really do not care if I write like I am 14 or like I am 70. I just write what I think.
I really can not add much to this thread, except to explain that poor old me probably could produce a pentium class CPU within a garage designed for one car.
Just make micro fibre optic cables and copy an old cyrix or even 386 architecture. Make a few adjustments and you will have a pent class CPU. It will last a few min before it melts and it wont be recognised by the pc but it be a pent class CPU for a min or so. Fibre optics travel data a lot faster than copper. A side note. Stick a fan shaped disc in between two magnetic motors, balance the negatice and positive and you will get a system fan spins round so long as the magnets last.
You could always design a motherboard to support it.

Yep, my positronic optical bioputer has been coming along well too. I have the organic molecules switching state okay, so that handles binary data storage for the registers on a molecule level but I'm still having trouble with the molecule size nand gates due to some oxidization problems. I think the lazer frequency isn't quite right. Data transport has been a killer as well due to the various problems with phase shift and so forth...

So how about network engineers? Could they be considered those that design networks/LANS/WANS? Technicians would be the ones who support/troubleshoot them? I ask about that one specifically cause it's the first one that comes to mind.