Any opinions on the possible dangers of EMF and RF radiation, and what acceptable levels might be? I understand no levels have been "established" yet by orgs like the CDC, EPA, or WHO, but thought some people in the Linux community might have some ideas about it.

I've recently read some articles and watched a few videos that seem quite plausible.

For instance, this is an excerpt from an article by the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. Their complete position on the subject is at the link I provided. Thirty-one citations are listed at the end of the article.

http://aaemonline.org/emf_rf_position.html

Electromagnetic and Radiofrequency Fields
Effect on Human Health

For over 50 years, the American Academy of Environmental Medicine (AAEM) has been studying and treating the effects of the environment on human health. In the last 20 years, our physicians began seeing patients who reported that electric power lines, televisions and other electrical devices caused a wide variety of symptoms. By the mid 1990's, it became clear that patients were adversely affected by electromagnetic fields and becoming more electrically sensitive. In the last five years with the advent of wireless devices, there has been a massive increase in radiofrequency (RF) exposure from wireless devices as well as reports of hypersensitivity and diseases related to electromagnetic field and RF exposure. Multiple studies correlate RF exposure with diseases such as cancer, neurological disease, reproductive disorders, immune dysfunction, and electromagnetic hypersensitivity[...]

Maybe. I wear a tinfoil hat and underwear just in case.

Surely you have a microwave oven at home ... so you need to ask if it is dangerous ?

You also realize that if you stand in front of some of the more powerful radio emitters that exist you will be cooked to death.

However, this obviously depends on the power output of the device. Your microwave oven outputs between 600 - 1000 Watts of power ... enough to cook food and you. Cell phones have an output power of 1 - 3 Watts. This is not enough to cook you, but is enough to trigger nearby speakers to make that sound most people have heard (this only happens when you get a call).

There are regulations in place to limit your radiation exposure:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...radiation3.htm

As for harmful effects, studies vary:
http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/cons.../ucm212273.htm
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20067593-266.html

Personally, I use ear phones just in case.

See above, depends on power levels.

It is very clear that there are possible dangers; that hardly needs discussing. There are levels established by various authorities (FCC in the US, I imagine, ISO and the local standards authorities in the EU countries, and someone with an incomprehensible name in the (former) Soviet Union). The levels that they establish with frequency vary, but, in general, the former Soviet Union ones are the lowest, The EU and US ones are similar, with the EU being slightly lower than the US.

So, what would you intend to do with this information?

While you can argue with the timescales, it is certainly the case that from the mid 1980s, when outside of a few particular situations, the environment was generally 'RF Quiet' we have now moved to a situation in which an 'RF Noisy' background is so common as to be absolutely standard. Has this had any practical effect? This is harder to know.

This is the bit that isn't clear - anyone who has an 'agenda' of one particular cause inevitably argues '...what else can it be..', whether they are arguing pesticides in food, DNA damage, 'bad' air, polluted water, (ionising) radiation, or RF Exposure as 'the only possible cause'.

I'm not sure that you are saying that being in the Linux community gives an opinion some privileged status, but, probably, what we need is actual credible testing rather than opinions. Opinions we've had for many years without it reaching a position where everybody has agreed with them.

@metaschima
Well, given that the (possibly academic) debate is about the exact conditions needed to damage biological material, you should probably not throw around statements like that without a little more consideration. 'Cooking' or 'not cooking' (roughly) may or may not be the issue and that is a focus of serious academic work.

Incidentally, and irrelevantly, the RF doesn't really trigger speakers - try to excite this reaction out of the speakers alone! The RF causes a problem with the driving electronics and that causes the audible output from the speakers. And, it doesn't only happen when you make a call - there are cell data events that occur, outside of calls that you make, that trigger the same outcome.

Alright, sed 's/cooking/causing increased molecular vibration in water molecules/g'

Fair enough - I was just concerned that if this thread did take off, with the 'tin foil hat brigade' piling in, that I didn't want stuff that could be misinterpreted/manipulated by people with an axe to grind to be sitting there, as a hostage to fortune. Having said that, this will probably be the last post...

The tin foil hatters are coming ? Here ? Well, I will leave too if they do, but it doesn't seem too likely to me. They prefer political/religious threads.

Pretty sure all this stuff has to be bad. What limit is deadly or harmful I can't say. My advice would be to limit it. Many many examples of mans efforts find their way into later life and next generations and harms the environment.

In the absence of empirical data, I'm falling back on opinions of those who may be more technically savvy than myself, or opinions from those who have spent more time researching it. I won't argue that what's needed is hard evidence.

As for opinions in the Linux community, that's just poor wording on my part. More accurate would have been, "I thought I'll post on Linuxquestions.org since I'm already a registered user, they have a general forum, and usually many people respond so I can get different viewpoints."

This is one video I saw, 3 cell phones places in a "T" position, a few inches apart, with a few kernels of corn placed in the center. The kernels popped in about 30 seconds.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk2...ur-home_people

I'm not sure what that means. 3 cell phones generate enough heat to pop popcorn? Multiple RF sources increase heat exponentially? One phone heats up cells near your brain, but not enough to cause immediate damage?

Anyway, so far I'm of the opinion that limiting exposure until more facts are in would be prudent.

That video probably renders the problem in a particularly/unduly dramatic light. Kernels of corn have a fairly low heat capacity, so heat up pretty quickly, and you already know what a microwave can do to corn (albeit, with a lot more power and a lot more corn). But it certainly should remind you that there is the potential (sorry) for a problem.

roughly, in order

• Yes
• No, not exponentially. Essentially, it is additive, but there can be some cancellation depending on wavelengths (and who knows how long it took them to get the most dramatic demo out of those phones and how much tweaking of the distances for best effect?)
• The SAR figures on phones indicate the amount by which biological matter would be heated. But, it is a tricky test to do repeatably and, in that sense, and easy test to influence by seemingly innocent looking slight modifications, and the 'lab test' only correlates to experience in the field slightly weakly (because the 'in the field' results will be influenced by those subtle modifications). And anyway, most people ignore the SAR figures on their phone, so whether, if the figure was different, that would change anybody's behaviour is questionable...
• The question is whether there is either immediate or long-term damage. It is clear that there must be some heating, but does it cause damage?

Well, the standards are based on an allowable amount of heating and a certain small amount of heating can be dealt with by, eg, blood flow carrying more heat away. But what of the non-heat effects of the radiation? Well, as the standards don't really say anything about those, the best that you can say is that there is a hope that if the direct heat-related effects are kept well enough under control, it may be that the non-heat effects are too. Maybe. Oh, and the non-heat effects are easier to demonstrate in a Petri dish of low IQ cells than in something like a higher lifeform. Relevant? Well, it may be.

Well, you could probably argue that almost irrespective of the evidence. Prudence, a force for good or for evil, discuss.

I think you have to place the cell phones just right in other for the effect to be additive.

Heating does cause damage to tissues. In fact one of my professors in college was doing experiments with microwave radiation on rat brains. Yes it did have cell-level effects even at low power. The next question is whether this increases the chance of getting cancer. That's left to other researchers to figure out. It doesn't really matter to me, because I don't want to heat my brain anyway, even if it doesn't cause cancer.

Thanks for the explanations.

This is what I read a few days ago, what got me started asking questions. I'll post a few excerpts:
EMF - my story and its effects on me and others

I've purchased an EMF meter (not an RF meter yet), found out the air purifier next to my bed (which I use more as a "white noise generator" when I sleep) is very high, over 60 mg. I put the meter on my pillow, and had a reading of 10. So I'll be looking for another white noise generator.

I started using computers when I was 19. I've struggled with depression most of my life, and anxiety. Over the years it got worse. Up until 6 years ago when I started regular meditation. I regularly do many things suggested by "professionals" to cope with depression and stress, etc. I believe meditation has helped me with being able to notice things that affect me (either negative or positively) more easily. And of course I make it a habit to rule anything out that could possibly be affecting me in a negative way. What I mean by that, more specifically, is my moods are prone to fluctuate, as well as my mental clarity, motivation, and energy level.

I don't know yet if I'll be able to be "mindful" of how radiation affects me. And I'm definitely not drawing any conclusions yet about if RF or EMF is affecting me.

I can say this: because of general pain issues I started having six years ago, I've had to place more stringent limits on how much time I spend on the computer. (Sometimes I screw up and spend way too much time). So I've found I'm more focused the less I use the computer (Although I do get a bit hyperfocused when working at the computer). It's easier to motivate myself to do some of the mundane tasks around the house I otherwise neglect. But still, I wouldn't be quick to attribute that to "radiation." I've always assumed the stimulation I get while on the computer (this I've noticed after I started meditating) has some side effects (short version). I generally feel better the less I use the computer, which is something I didn't notice before I began meditating regularly. So although my pain has improved to the point I can type this without having a "flare-up" that lasts for three days, I still make efforts to reduce the amount of time I spend at the computer. I actually go through "withdrawal symptoms" when I try to quit "cold turkey." Anxiety, restlessness, intense cravings to get on, just for a few minutes, inability to distract myself with other activites... And like an addiction, after about three days, the "symptoms" subside and it's much easier to forget about using the computer, or doing cool stuff with Linux.

I didn't mean to bore anyone with my life story or provide "TMI." To sum up, since I have certain problems which have to be explained, I'm frequently searching for things to rule out. Not just for myself, but some other members of my family have similar problems. My father committed suicide when I was a kid, well before the increased EMF and RF levels in the environment. Obviously it's most likely biology and environmental factors play a role in our family regarding the depression stuff, but if there's anything within my control, I want to know about it. Perhaps there are others that feel the same way, so I chose to share a bit more info than required.

Certainly powerful magnetic fields can affect the brain in a very active way:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transc...ic_stimulation

However, note that these devices are specifically designed for this and have a large amount of current passing through them. They also have to be right next to your head.

A cell phone cannot produce enough current to do this, it's main effect is heating.

I also have a EMF meter and I can say that the only items in a computer that produce a noticeable field are fans and power supplies / transformers. The field dissipates quickly as you move away from the source (I believe to the power of 3 with distance), so it shouldn't really affect you.

I would say that it is most important to do what you enjoy doing.

EDIT:
Oh, and if you ever think negative thoughts contact your doctor or go to the ER right away. I'll leave this here preemptively just in case, because there was a similar thread not too long ago where this advice may have come too late.

Thanks. Last time I had thoughts that negative was 12 years ago, but thanks for the preemptive suggestion.

I did measure my monitor and the front of the computer. Readings were pretty low (DELL LCD monitor 2.9 mg, 4 inches away drops to .3) (Desktop: 5.7 mg when I hold it against the top front. 4 inches away - drop to 1 mg) (Back of desktop, on top: 18 mg, 4 inches away, drop to 1 mg) below 1 mg on a HP laptop I have, the upper left quadrant of the keyboard shoots to 4 mg though. LCD display low. I do turn the wireless off on that now.