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Old 02-21-2018, 09:04 AM   #61
rokytnji
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Quote:
Firefox? Isn't it like dying out? Just saying...
As is the members on the forum I mod at. All retired senior citizens. They are not hip young hacker crackers.

Besides. I thought Gnu/Linux was dying out . Boy was I fooled. Mozilla is probably fine and dandy. Not as big as a Google corp. of course. But fine and dandy non the less. I find it funny Edge is is rated lower than Firefox in your link.

Just sayin.

PS. Android phones come with Chrome browsers. Which probably skew the stats. Chrome books also. Owning both. Kinda funny I know this.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 09:28 AM   #62
Beefybison
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Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Firefox? Isn't it like dying out? Just saying...
I don't know. I never use it haha..
 
Old 02-21-2018, 09:44 AM   #63
cynwulf
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According to that link, Firefox and IE/Edge have been losing userbase to chrome/chromium since the start of the decade. IE/Edge is by far the biggest loser, especially if IE and Edge stats are split, IE is legacy and Edge hasn't really taken off (because they made the decision to tie it to Windows 10).

Assuming that the stats are "roughly correct", they don't say a lot about browsers... more so about the OS in use.

If we consider that in the vast majority of cases, the OS running the browser is not a classic Linux desktop distribution and that Linux is about <1% of the desktop OS market, then those figure don't really reveal much about what the typical Linux user uses. For Linux users, IE or Edge are not an option, so again not so relevant. For example, they don't show the split between Linux chrome users and Linux firefox users. Those figures would be very different.

They do reveal that chrome, a google product, with millions in google investment (itself based on a fork of Apple's webkit layout engine), which had a massive global advertising campaign at the early part of the decade, is more popular than Firefox - a free product, which relies on some money from google to survive... they also fall in line with the "smartphone" revolution. That the omnipresent Android devices are the likely culprits in pushing these figures up.

http://gs.statcounter.com/press/andr...for-first-time

Here you can see the typical decline in the windows platform and the rise of Android devices.

The reality is, that these kind of statistics represent a demographic which someone who uses a free *nix like OS and who posts on a forum like this one, probably doesn't fall into.

Last edited by cynwulf; 02-21-2018 at 09:46 AM.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 09:54 AM   #64
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Though you have to admit - this is your opinion. ESR wrote the article and discussed something very different and very relevant to open source development. It has been cited repeatedly over the years. But on the whole it was a critique of top down vs bottom up development. It also cites "Linus' law" - which has since been proven to be more of an idealistic thing.
Anything anyone communicates is technically "opinion" but what matters is evidence and the many ways it can be interpreted. I consider my view an interpretation if not simply an observation of pattern and function, and my conclusions from years of observation. IMHO MS and Windows are almost totally a pyramid, a top-down structure. Very little is standalone. It's strength as well as it's weakness is the microkernel and the highly integrated structure, all revolving around a Central Command Stucture.

By definition of McElroy himself anything Unix based is primarily standalone that can be piped together. I won't belabor the subject further since I suppose most here know the difference between Top-Down Authoritarianism and Individualistic Democracy and how that is reflected in Windows vs/ Linux. I choose to extend the characterization of Cathedral and Bazaar to encompass and include those concepts and characterizations. I see a pattern. If you don't, that's fine with me.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 12:44 PM   #65
Mr. Alex
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Another thing I like Windows for is an ability to have any amount of same program in system you want. For example I wanna have Google Chrome 20, Google Chrome 25, Google Chrome 31, Google Chrome 38 and Google Chrome 50 at the same time. Can I do it in Linux? Just curious.

Or having old version of some program. Like I want to run Firefox 2.0.0.3 or Opera 7.23. Several clicks in Windows and it's on my screen. What about Linux?
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:02 PM   #66
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Another thing I like Windows for is an ability to have any amount of same program in system you want. For example I wanna have Google Chrome 20, Google Chrome 25, Google Chrome 31, Google Chrome 38 and Google Chrome 50 at the same time. Can I do it in Linux? Just curious.

Or having old version of some program. Like I want to run Firefox 2.0.0.3 or Opera 7.23. Several clicks in Windows and it's on my screen. What about Linux?
If you like Windoze so much, why don't you stick to it and leave us in peace. Then take your trolling to a Windoze forum.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:14 PM   #67
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Another thing I like Windows for is an ability to have any amount of same program in system you want. For example I wanna have Google Chrome 20, Google Chrome 25, Google Chrome 31, Google Chrome 38 and Google Chrome 50 at the same time. Can I do it in Linux? Just curious.

Or having old version of some program. Like I want to run Firefox 2.0.0.3 or Opera 7.23. Several clicks in Windows and it's on my screen. What about Linux?
Yes https://gobolinux.org/at_a_glance.html

Hey you're a usedToBe Linux user, you should know that you can do anything you want with linux.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:46 PM   #68
Mr. Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
Yeah, I remember this one. But what about Arch or Debian for example? Gobo is rather marginal... :-) It's like you wanna use it only for specific Gobo-things.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 01:51 PM   #69
Mill J
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Certainly grab some source and build, those opt folders aren't there for nothing.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 06:56 PM   #70
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
any amount of same program in system you want.
[...]
Or having old version of some program.
The Nix package manager may be of interest.

https://nixos.org/nix/

Quote:
Nix is a powerful package manager for Linux and other Unix systems that makes package management reliable and reproducible. It provides atomic upgrades and rollbacks, side-by-side installation of multiple versions of a package, multi-user package management and easy setup of build environments.
GNU Guix is similar (built on the same core, I think, but configurable with guile (a dialect of scheme)).
https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/

Last edited by ntubski; 02-21-2018 at 09:28 PM. Reason: s/a/is
 
Old 02-21-2018, 07:20 PM   #71
Mill J
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Or even appimages https://appimage.org
 
Old 02-22-2018, 02:08 AM   #72
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
...
@jsbjsb001
Yes we'd be better off....
There's always the ignore file.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 02:55 AM   #73
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
IMHO MS and Windows are almost totally a pyramid, a top-down structure. Very little is standalone. It's strength as well as it's weakness is the microkernel and the highly integrated structure, all revolving around a Central Command Stucture.
Very true (though NT is actually a hybrid kernel - as is Apple's XNU).

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I choose to extend the characterization of Cathedral and Bazaar to encompass and include those concepts and characterizations. I see a pattern. If you don't, that's fine with me.
It's a fair point and of course I see / have always seen the pattern - was just pointing out that the author never really intended to address this.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 05:12 AM   #74
Mara
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This thread got out of subject and doesn't seem to get back. We have separate threads for Linux vs Windows and systemd. This one is closed.
 
  


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