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Old 06-10-2019, 06:37 AM   #46
rokytnji
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Yep. Same here ^^.

As I scare the person in line behind me to get back, back I say, so I can punch my pin in for my purchase.
Now they probably consider me a big bully.

Good thing I live rural.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 05:08 AM   #47
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
Is it not the entire point, that if you are NOT in complete control of your system that you may not e able to tell?

It is only paranoia if they are NOT out to get you! ;-)
fair point.
next time I get a laptop I'll make sure I'll get some duct tape too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDeckard View Post
If some cute female twentysomething FBI agent wants to see that weird face I make when the laptop buzzes too loudly, I don't really care. There are worse things to be concerned with in life from an information security perspective than a picture of your face, and I figure for the truly dedicated a good game of OSINT mining could yield much more in the results category.
It saddens me to see this line of argumentation here on LQ; it's just a version of "I don't mind if G/FB gets all my data, I have nothing to hide".
I am so tired of it, but I'll try to list the counter-arguments one more time:
  • what about the amount of information one can get from BEHIND where you're sitting
  • in the age of AI and Deep Learning, a face combined with an IP is a pretty large step to a complete data set
now if you say "I'm happy if G/FB and whatever inter/national 'security' agency have a complete data set on me" - then I rest my case.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 05:32 AM   #48
Peter Horst
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Yeah, I do cover my laptop camera, just feels safer that way.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 05:38 AM   #49
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
  • what about the amount of information one can get from BEHIND where you're sitting
  • in the age of AI and Deep Learning, a face combined with an IP is a pretty large step to a complete data set
now if you say "I'm happy if G/FB and whatever inter/national 'security' agency have a complete data set on me" - then I rest my case.
I got tired of where this thread went but I'm glad to see there is some sense being imparted.

It is not the same if I take a Youtube video and post it online from my room since that is planned.

If pictures/videos are unknowingly taken in my room, people I don't know and don't want to know can have information on where I live, who is there at any point in time, what I am reading, what I am watching, what I am researching. Some of this might be sensitive and some of it I may not want anyone to know about.

"I have nothing to hide" is such a terrible argument. Would you like every thought inside your brain exposed? Because with that kind of attitude, we're well on our way.

Last edited by Lysander666; 06-12-2019 at 06:25 AM.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 10:38 AM   #50
noordinaryspider
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I'm using a laptop that doesn't have a camera right now. That was a positive feature when I purchased it. I'd rather just plug in an external webcam when I want one, which is very rarely since I think in text and mentally translate into spoken language.

When people know what I look like, it changes the relationship and not in a good way.

I like getting to know people from the inside out. It's fun when you're surprised about things like age, sex, or location that would have seemed like insurmountable barriers to friendship afk. I think it changes me for the better to realize that my best buddy is one of "them", so there actually is no "they", only "we".

I'll duct tape or disable the camera when I can't find camera-free hardware any more if I still want to use the internet then. It's becoming an increasingly unfriendly place, but I still have some ties that I care about, like LQ in general and other beloved communities and special individuals.

My local area has very few Linux users so I usually just say, "I don't have a phone" or "I don't have a Facebook" and leave it at that.

I don't like the way I respond to "What's Linux?". Most people would rather believe that it doesn't exist and that I am a mentally ill person with delusions of grandeur.

That makes me feel feelings. I'd rather edit my configuration files or play my guitar.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #51
hazel
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I don't often use my laptop so it's not an issue for me. I don't have a webcam on my desktop computer.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 10:54 AM   #52
Timothy Miller
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I don't. I figure what's the point of running an open source OS if I can't verify/trust that there's no backdoors into my camera. On my 1 system that has Windows (desktop), there is no webcam.
 
Old 06-12-2019, 05:40 PM   #53
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
..."I have nothing to hide" is such a terrible argument. Would you like every thought inside your brain exposed? Because with that kind of attitude, we're well on our way.
How about: "I have much to hide, but none of it is illegal, so I'll keep it hidden."

Which, of course, gets TLAs interested.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 03:58 AM   #54
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
I have much to hide, but none of it is illegal
Not yet anyway.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 08:25 AM   #55
freemedia2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
I don't. I figure what's the point of running an open source OS if I can't verify/trust that there's no backdoors into my camera.
There are backdoors in your hardware.

The (modern) point of running a free software operating system is that without free software, there is no point in free hardware. Free software used to be enough. Hardware is getting cheap and flexible enough that bad actors can move threats from the OS to the firmware-- even Shuttleworth called ACPI and all proprietary firmware a "trojan horse" and security threat. The future will require that both software and hardware are "free as in freedom." Which won't mean gratis to copy, but everybody knows that.

There may also be backdoors in your software.

Debian is making good (slow, but notable) progress with reproducible builds. That will HELP reduce the possibility of backdoors in Debian. Choosing Debian over say, Windows reduces the possibility of backdoors as well. Every step in the right direction is good, unless we kid ourselves about it being 100%. Security in the real world is about tradeoffs-- it's also about not making too many of them, otherwise it's not security.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 09:18 AM   #56
Peter Horst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd View Post
Yes, I use tape, multiple layers. I could disconnect, but that's a PITA. Never thought about the mic really, guess that could e an issue as well.
Same, tape it to feel safe
 
Old 06-13-2019, 12:59 PM   #57
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
fair enough, but speak for yourself.
Myself, and a whole load of "middle aged white men" like me. If somebody is that interested in what I look like naked then fair enough. i've used enough "rest rooms" in bars and public places. I would never choose to leave my home naked but thatKs more out of consideration for others (and the law, of course) than caring whether anyone sees me naked.
The point of my mentioning this, however, is that if millions are infected with malware which records webcams then I'm at the bottom of the pile when it comes to people selling the footage to perverts.

As a prevous post mentioned, the backgound of a webcam view may yield information but, in my case, I know it's very little.
 
Old 06-13-2019, 01:06 PM   #58
jazzy_mood
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I'm definitely old school here. I have my cellphone and laptop cameras covered. Might as well make a switch for my mic

Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
There are backdoors in your hardware.

The (modern) point of running a free software operating system is that without free software, there is no point in free hardware. Free software used to be enough. Hardware is getting cheap and flexible enough that bad actors can move threats from the OS to the firmware-- even Shuttleworth called ACPI and all proprietary firmware a "trojan horse" and security threat. The future will require that both software and hardware are "free as in freedom." Which won't mean gratis to copy, but everybody knows that.

There may also be backdoors in your software.

Debian is making good (slow, but notable) progress with reproducible builds. That will HELP reduce the possibility of backdoors in Debian. Choosing Debian over say, Windows reduces the possibility of backdoors as well. Every step in the right direction is good, unless we kid ourselves about it being 100%. Security in the real world is about tradeoffs-- it's also about not making too many of them, otherwise it's not security.
Yes, firmware can contain malware and I've read about BIOS malware too. Not sure if it's still possible with UEFI and Secure Boot though.

Last edited by jazzy_mood; 06-13-2019 at 01:09 PM.
 
Old 06-14-2019, 05:51 AM   #59
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy_mood View Post
Yes, firmware can contain malware and I've read about BIOS malware too. Not sure if it's still possible with UEFI and Secure Boot though.
Of course it is! What secure boot does is to prevent you from booting unsigned bootloaders or kernels. That's supposed to be a protection against boot-sector viruses, though obviously Microsoft hoped it would protect them against people installing Linux.

But BIOS malware is inside the BIOS, and UEFI malware would be inside the UEFI. It could easily be installed via a UEFI upgrade. I don't know if it exists in the wild, but it's only a matter of time. In fact, a UEFI would probably be a better host for malware than a BIOS because the software is much more complex.
 
Old 06-15-2019, 01:24 AM   #60
ondoho
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Quote:
if millions are infected with malware which records webcams then I'm at the bottom of the pile when it comes to people selling the footage to perverts.
this is an interesting attitude many people take towards Big Data; they still assume there has to be some sort of "perpetrator with criminal intent" that one needs to be protected from, or one's kids.
But in (my) reality the danger is systemic; all this data is being gathered, most of it personally (*) identifiable, and I want to avoid that the picture any (government) agency can get of me becomes too detailed.

(*) maybe not your name and birth date - if they obey the law - but just about everything else. Don't kid yourself, you are uniquely identifiable by that data.
 
  


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