Discussed voting to dismiss money driven society system
Reason why i am making this inspired thread is because this weekend in Latvia we will have first "legal" voting option to dismiss(not elect) parliament(or "saeima" as we call it) + people are boiling in local website commentaries(not mention here aswell) about life and on streets since we are in problematic country list atm and I recently re-watched Zeitgeist and if you really think about it - we are in deep s**t because we created this system that uses us not helps us live better and despite we might not like something about reality - it might be solution to our problems at same time. So please read or watch about part where The Venus Project is introduced and give your 2 cents. Personally i support this idea after going through the plot but i just am not sure on one detail - how they are going to achieve this into reality since we won't get second Earth as "second chance". Deus Ex version also fails(unless other 2 can work) because then we will start again without technology. Would be nice though however any corrections on flaws about current system or other ideas probably exist too.
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I do not see a way to remove money from current society - it isn't possible, since not all goods are material (software does not "exist" as a material object, but it takes years to make some programs). You could aim to create better set of laws for society, though. I believe it is possible to create a set of laws that will exploit people's vices and virtues to make a society where everyone is not unhappy about their position. However, you won't be able to destroy "money" as a concept. |
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In other words, the idea of money is actually quite good. However, there should be a way to prevent people in control from "breaking" a system by printing as much cash as they want. (IMO) Idea of computer networks that build required goods on demand is great, but without concept of money it will fail. |
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Ok here is another interesting movie "The Light Bulb Conspiracy" outside Zeitgeist idea about our "economy".
http://vimeo.com/26859312 |
Thanks for the Zeitgeist Movement objections video, Arcane :) -- it made a lot of sense.
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I have just read about the Venus project, and I don't like it. It is similar to what the Illuminati are already planning: getting rid of real money and instead using only numbers in a computer system, the mandatory clean green renewable energy BS (so they can make sure they can tax everything to death).
I agree that money must be gotten rid of as it is the main problem with society, the second main problem being the people that print it. I recommend a tab or barter based system. Whatever the solution the following must be true: 1) No third parties (no feds) 2) No middle men (banks) 3) No conversion of goods to arbitrary unit value (money) Due to the complexity of the system that must be implemented, a computing solution will be required, so: 4) The computing system must run FLOSS (not M$ or proprietary) and it must be as secure as possible. |
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You have a country. There is a mining region (ore/stone), oil-producing region, grain producing region, food producing region, food factory , polymer factory, chip plant, science research center, several power plants, multiple schools and universities, several prisons, nation-wide computer network, multiple software companies, etc - in other word, country is completely self-sufficient (Doesn't work this way in real life). Everything requires product made by everything else, and everything require people to work, and every region is far away from each other. I.e. you can't grow crops very successfully in mining region, and there's no oil in farm region. Now. How are you going to keep this huge thing running without money? How are you going to prevent people from dying or going back to stone age if you remove concept of money? Why would anybody want to deliver food to miners that are few thousands of miles away? Why would anybody want to work? "No money" society could have worked for a small village in ancient ages when goods were material, weapons were wood+stone, everybody was hunter, farmer or a craftsman and all necessary materials could be found nearby. However I don't see how you could make it work in modern society. You can't trade software for food, because software does not exist as a limited material object. You can't compose music for food, write book for food, etc. Production of your cellphone alone involves multiple industries. Remove money, and there are three ways - invent money again, go back to stone age or everybody dies. All your "no money" ideas remind me of Cambodia/Kampuchea ("Currency: none, as money was abolished"). If you believe in them, build a successful country based on them, then we'll talk. |
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You are right, of course, that direct trading like software for food, will not work. I mean, what if I'm a farmer and don't need software. That's where the computer-based system comes in. I think it should be an online market, but not one like it is today where everything is converted into a currency first. Say that I am a farmer and I want to purchase a car. In a direct trading system I would trade an amount of wheat or corn for the car. However, the car manufacturer doesn't need this, instead they need steel. Of course it can't trade that corn to the steel mill, because they don't need it either. However, someone somewhere needs it, and that someone also produces something, even if it is just software. The solution of money solves this by creating an arbitrary unit into which everything can be converted, and is converted. The solution would be good, if it were not for the banks, middle men, feds, etc. However, I think that they cannot be gotten rid of. If you know of a way, do tell. So, instead of using money, the computerized market system will route goods to where they are needed, so that they arrive unspoiled, on time, etc. It will obviously have to calculate the value of goods based on supply and demand, but it will be only with respect to other goods. With money, it isn't like this. Why ? Because money itself has a value, and that is not based on much. It used to be based on gold, which was in limited supply, but today not anymore. So, they can print as much money as they want, and cause well ... the status quo. I don't expect the system to be simple to implement, but I think it is possible to get rid of money. |
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