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Old 09-12-2021, 02:16 PM   #1
newbiesforever
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did anyone see this bad news about Protonmail?


https://www.komando.com/security-pri...ent=2021-09-12

User information was given to the French police. Although Protonmail claims it was compelled by law.
 
Old 09-12-2021, 03:06 PM   #2
kermitdafrog8
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did anyone see this bad news about Protonmail?

This is why you use PGP or other encryption on top of the e2e. Wonder how they handle the history for the VPN side.
 
Old 09-12-2021, 03:24 PM   #3
sundialsvcs
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Realistically speaking, every company has to keep records so that it can promptly furnish those records in response to a lawful subpoena or a court-issued search warrant.

"Privacy" is a legitimate social concern, but so is law enforcement. If someone used "private communications" to commit a tort against you, and the company in question claimed that it knew nothing about "what had just happened on its watch" and kept no records, you would at the very least feel ill-used. You might even be able to convince a jury that the company was an accomplice.

Or maybe just "obstruction of justice."

Now, this does not necessarily mean that you could expect the company to provide you with a decrypt. "Common communications carrier" rules would certainly apply: you can use a phone scrambler and the phone company can't be required to unscramble it. Their only job is to carry the communication. But they can be subpoenaed to provide evidence that the call was made, and if the court had ordered a wiretap they might have to supply a recording of the raw signal.

Phil Zimmermann (the inventor of PGP) was right when he said: "It's personal. It's private. And it's nobody's business but yours." Unless you are committing a crime, in which case it does become "somebody else's business." Namely, the plaintiff's.

You have every right to use encryption to secure privacy – in fact, the padlock on your browser's address bar shows that you are using very strong encryption right now – but not to commit a crime.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 09-12-2021 at 03:35 PM.
 
Old 09-13-2021, 01:21 AM   #4
dugan
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Was it the Swiss police or the French police?

Anyway, I first read about it here:

https://twitter.com/tenacioustek/sta...04102676271106

Last edited by dugan; 09-13-2021 at 01:28 AM.
 
Old 09-13-2021, 02:17 AM   #5
obobskivich
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Read the linked article in the first post - sounds like much ado about nothing (and the whole second half of it is just an advertisement - likely paid), as lawful warrants are (like sundialsvcs points out) the result of a court's involvement, which brings with it due process and so forth. If we're going to reject that as legitimate (which is where that twitter thread seemed to be going before I closed it - I should've known better than to click) we may as well just burn everything down and go back to caveman times...
 
Old 09-13-2021, 07:09 AM   #6
hazel
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In any case, they can only reveal metadata such as addresses. They can't reveal the content of emails, not even to the Swiss authorities, because they are end-to-end encrypted.
 
Old 09-13-2021, 08:18 AM   #7
sundialsvcs
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They are just a common carrier of the information. They can't read it and don't have to. They don't have to keep a copy of it, either. But it's reasonable to expect them to keep detailed records of who sent messages to whom, message size, time and date, and possibly a digest of the [encrypted] contents.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 09-15-2021 at 08:56 AM.
 
Old 09-13-2021, 05:33 PM   #8
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Official statement: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/

 
  


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