LinuxQuestions.org
Help answer threads with 0 replies.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 09-25-2009, 01:34 PM   #1
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 3,183

Rep: Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937
Red face Dependency checking this, dependency checking that.


I am a Slackware user, and only steered away once years ago when I played with Mandrake 9.x. After that, I came back to Slackware during 10.0 series, and never looked at any other distro ever again. Still, every-other-linux-user that doesn't use Slackware, tries it, and then one of the most common complaint, besides 'no package management' (that one is BEYOND me, since there IS one), is of course the obligatory 'no dependency checking.'

So, as a Slacker I am dumbfounded as to WHY Slackware needs it (according to users of other distros). What are we Slackers 'missing', that other distros provide as a 'feature' that Slackware just doesn't do?

Sooner or later I will play with a dependency-checking-distro, just to really see what the hell all this hype is about. Maybe Debian. I can't help but sound so, whats the word I'm looking for...Argumentative, skeptical...Whatever. But I just don't see it. What are we missing, according to those that go on and on about it? Cause I don't feel we are missing a thing. Just looking for any kind of justification from a non-slacker, that is all. Whats so special about it?
 
Old 09-25-2009, 01:48 PM   #2
linuxpokernut
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Distribution: Slackware 14
Posts: 237
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 59
To each their own. Windows users only get 1 or 2 disros to hate on at a time, we get tons.
j/k.

I don't know really? It works for me but I can see how its not for everyone. Theres 2 package managers that I know about but I guess the inability to resolve is the factor that leads to the urban legend that they don't exist.

Ubuntu certainly is more convenient than slackware. Maybe thats the #1 deciding factor for some people.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 01:52 PM   #3
mjones490
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Distribution: LFS
Posts: 60

Rep: Reputation: 22
I use Linux From Scratch, so my dependency checker is 'make'. If 'make' fails to build a package, it's usually because there is a dependency missing.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 01:56 PM   #4
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 3,183

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937
Ubuntu's 'convenience' is merely the fact that it is a fork of Debian that still can use the massive repo that Debian is known for, not just the 'everything-is-already-setup-for-you.' If you need a program that isn't there, you can still use .deb packages as far as I know. Don't get me wrong, I think Ubuntu is great that it can utilise such a large repo, but as I said I would be willing to at least TRY a dependency checking distro, and that will most likely be Debian itself. I don't want to fiddle with having to get my root privileges back, just because Ubuntu thinks it knows whats best for me.

I don't hate Ubuntu, nor do I hate Debian, or any other distro. I just want to see what all the 'hub-bub' is about with dep. checking. Ubuntu itself is aimed towards the non technical, which is great, except that I don't agree that the user should be totally shielded from their own system, which unfortunately Ubuntu does. If thats the case, the user may as well stay with Vista, and be forced to click through endless 'warning' dialogs about each and every little thing.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 02:01 PM   #5
carbonfiber
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Sparta
Posts: 237

Rep: Reputation: 46
The hell with it.

Last edited by carbonfiber; 09-25-2009 at 02:18 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 02:02 PM   #6
linuxpokernut
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Distribution: Slackware 14
Posts: 237
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Ubuntu's 'convenience' is merely the fact that it is a fork of Debian that still can use the massive repo that Debian is known for, not just the 'everything-is-already-setup-for-you.' If you need a program that isn't there, you can still use .deb packages as far as I know. Don't get me wrong, I think Ubuntu is great that it can utilise such a large repo, but as I said I would be willing to at least TRY a dependency checking distro, and that will most likely be Debian itself. I don't want to fiddle with having to get my root privileges back, just because Ubuntu thinks it knows whats best for me.

I don't hate Ubuntu, nor do I hate Debian, or any other distro. I just want to see what all the 'hub-bub' is about with dep. checking. Ubuntu itself is aimed towards the non technical, which is great, except that I don't agree that the user should be totally shielded from their own system, which unfortunately Ubuntu does. If thats the case, the user may as well stay with Vista, and be forced to click through endless 'warning' dialogs about each and every little thing.
Thats why you don't use Ubuntu, not why people don't use slackware. Its easier for Joe-end-user to set up Ubuntu coz all they have to do is type a few $sudu apt-get installs. I agree with everything you're saying on a personal level but its easier to drive automatic than stick, so more people drive automatic.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 02:10 PM   #7
carbonfiber
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Sparta
Posts: 237

Rep: Reputation: 46
The hell with it.

Last edited by carbonfiber; 09-25-2009 at 02:18 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 02:18 PM   #8
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware14.2 64-Bit Desktop, Devuan 2.0 ASCII Toshiba Satellite Notebook
Posts: 3,183

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937Reputation: 937
Perhaps. I never claimed I was an expert, nor a distro developer. Of course they know more than me, so does Volkerding . I am sure he knows just as much them though.

I don't feel 'hardcore' though, just for the fact that I run Slackware, as I am sure a Gentoo user doesn't feel 'hardcore' either, or LFS user, cause they compile each and every little thing. Minimalising Slackware may or may not be a PITA depending (pun-intended ) on if it is a server, or desktop. Desktop yes, I will give you that, cause of X. Sure I do full installs too, cause I'm also lazy. But I don't feel 'so hardcore though', and don't worry I know you didn't insinuate in any way that I was.


As I stated earlier too. I am more than willing to try a dep. checking distro, (Here's looking at you Debian) but coming from Slackware, the lack there of, hasn't stopped me from installing running new things.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 09-25-2009 at 02:20 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2009, 02:34 PM   #9
Lordandmaker
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: London, UK
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 258

Rep: Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
So, as a Slacker I am dumbfounded as to WHY Slackware needs it (according to users of other distros).
Slackware only needs it for the people that want it, which are the people who are asking for it.
Clearly, there are many, many people who try slackware, and like it without the dependency checking. You're presumably one of them.

Quote:
What are we Slackers 'missing', that other distros provide as a 'feature' that Slackware just doesn't do?
Dependency checking, as you've said yourself. It isn't necessarily a universally desired feature, which is why Slackware doesn't have it. Some people want it, other people don't.

Quote:
Sooner or later I will play with a dependency-checking-distro, just to really see what the hell all this hype is about.
Coming from the other camp, as a Debian indoctrinate, I keep being tempted to try out Slackware to find out what all that hype is about. I would expect to find that the hype is about things that don't matter to me (as with most other distros I've tried - Debian does pretty much exactly what I want), and I'd imagine you would do the same with Debian.

Quote:
Just looking for any kind of justification from a non-slacker, that is all. Whats so special about it?
It's personal preference.
It's why I ride a motorbike and the guy who sits next to me drives a car. He likes the features a car has, I like the features a motorbike has.
 
Old 09-29-2009, 05:26 PM   #10
unSpawn
Moderator
 
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 29,415
Blog Entries: 55

Rep: Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594Reputation: 3594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordandmaker View Post
It's personal preference. It's why I ride a motorbike and the guy who sits next to me drives a car. He likes the features a car has, I like the features a motorbike has.
Couldn't it have more practical applications than "personal preference"? Say you have to set up ten machines for different purposes? Do you have (does your boss/clients grant you) the time to endlessly TS why something isn't working? Or would you be helped with having required dependencies at the ready? Just wondering.
 
Old 09-29-2009, 06:29 PM   #11
jiml8
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,171

Rep: Reputation: 116Reputation: 116
There are two sides to dependency checking.

I've done plenty of installs where configure failed, causing me to obtain another tar.gz package to satisfy the dependency, then I couldn't configure IT because of something, and on and on, sometimes for days, until I had managed to obtain, compile, and install everything I needed. So, what started as a fairly simple install turned into a freakin' nightmare.

For that reason, I like package managers that handle dependencies. It sees it needs a dependency, it goes and gets it. I tell it to install xyz.rpm, and it winds up telling me it will be installing 34 different rpms in order to make that one work. OK by me; just do it.

But, then, sometimes the dependency checking turns out to be circular or not sufficiently intelligent. Package xyz.10.rpm will be replacing xyz.09.rpm but not until package abc.10.rpm replaces package abc.09.rpm. So package abc.10.rpm won't go in because xyz.10.rpm is required and only xyz.09.rpm is installed. There are circumstances where the package manager figures this out, and other circumstances where it aborts the install because of it.

Also sometimes file mno.txt from package abc.10.rpm conflicts with file mno.txt from package 123.05.rpm. This will cause aborted installs, though when you look at them you find that these two txt files are the same, or substantially the same, or irrelevant anyway...just provided from different places.

When these things happen, you wind up installing from the command line using the -force option, and if you are smart you'll take a look at the conflicts to make sure that -force is the right thing to do. It usually is, but you do have to be a bit careful.

On balance, I have to say that a dependency checking package manager is a lot less work than one that doesn't. But it isn't perfect, by any means. Though, I must say that apt seems to be a lot smarter than rpm is about it.

Last edited by jiml8; 09-29-2009 at 06:30 PM.
 
Old 09-29-2009, 06:51 PM   #12
brianL
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Oldham, Lancs, England
Distribution: Slackware & Slackware64 14.2 & current
Posts: 7,916
Blog Entries: 59

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I use mostly SlackBuilds, and on the web page for any item it will tell you what else is needed. So that's no problem.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
package management and dependency checking BCarey Slackware 10 01-04-2009 07:00 AM
removing a package without dependency checking whitesuit Debian 1 10-25-2006 12:13 AM
Dependency Checking??? Southpaw76 Slackware 4 09-03-2006 12:56 PM
dependency checking in slackware? hottdogg Slackware 8 09-02-2006 05:41 PM
Netpkg adds dependency checking jpgu Linux - News 0 12-24-2005 06:53 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration