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Old 03-18-2020, 10:20 PM   #76
frankbell
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Quote:
Covid-19 as far as I know is a variation on the common cold. It seems to be natural and somewhat common.
For most persons, who have only no or mild symptoms, that might seem to be the case. But it's not a variation on the common cold; it's something new. The symptoms may seem similar to colds or flu, but the cause is different. That's why it's spreading so rapidly.

Here's a first-hand account from someone who had more than a mild case. She states that

Quote:
the whistle in my lungs was so loud that a friend joked I should break out the spoons for a jig.
I've had lots of colds and occasional flus over the years, plus a few strep throats when I was younger, but I have never had a "whistle in my lungs." As much as I scorn the fear-mongers, I think the danger must be recognized as regards those who are vulnerable, that is old folks like me and persons with certain pre-existing conditions.

(As an aside, how does a pre-existing condition differ from an existing condition?)
 
Old 03-19-2020, 12:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I suspect some of the closings, like of common Spring Break beaches, is to get the message out to younger people who think they have only to fear a runny nose and a headache.
They don't seem to get that, even if they barely shows any symptoms (even none), they could easily be carrying the virus and wind up transmitting it to others who may succumb much more easily. Those beaches and bars in Florida will likely be another source of cases -- much like that Biogen conference did when its attendees spread it around after they left the event -- but we'll probably never really know if that's the case because the lack of testing. (That's where we've really screwed the pooch: testing.)
 
Old 03-19-2020, 02:59 AM   #78
ondoho
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Neither panic nor downplaying are the right reaction here.
The thing is real, whether you like it or not. Let's deal with it.

Just a calm reminder:
Now is not the time to undermine your government's recommendations or ride out your own agenda on this.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 05:13 AM   #79
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Last night I went out for drinks with a friend of mine who's a doctor, I've known him for over 20 years and he's someone who I fully trust. We both knew it would be our last chance at socialising for a while. I don't completely understand the complications of his role, but part of his job is to triage patients in an ICU in one one of the major London hospitals. I am not a medic myself, so I'm just relating what he said, as far as I can remember. I can't give any clinical opinion.

We went out in Westminster and for 8pm all the pubs were very quiet. This gave the evening something of an eerie feel from the start and we had to keep moving pubs because they repeatedly closed early. It brought to my attention that the set of events we're currently experiencing are most unusual. He and I agreed, back when the virus was confirmed as a pandemic by WHO, that it was the most significant event since September 11. We also agreed that it would have wide-ranging knock-on effects and ramifications that would change the course of human history. I asked him back then why people were still being flippant about it, to which he said, "because they haven't seen what I have". Last night I wanted him to elaborate on that.

The first thing I asked him yesterday was how things were going at his work, to which he just said, "everybody's dying". I said, "what do you mean? What do you mean 'everybody's dying'?" He said that many patients were being denied surgery and beds because of coronavirus. The wards had to make not just difficult, but "aggressive" triage decisions on patients. Patients who they would normally be able to care for were being left to die. Patients would come up to him and say, "when is my vascular surgery, it was supposed to happen soon???" and he'd say, "we don't know, we don't know if it's even going to happen this year". The most concerning part was when he said that if patients have severe symptoms of COVID-19 and they're over 80, the hospital will not give them treatment, they will just palliate them because the beds are needed for people who have a better chance of survival.

He said COVID was not like flu, it was way more infectious. Many people in this country - and in many countries - are not taking it seriously enough, it's very dangerous. People over 70 should not be going out, they should be self-isolating as of now. This should have started at least two weeks ago. Even going to the shops or to the park for a walk is a risk. If the elderly contract it and it becomes severe they will not be given care. This is what he described as the "harsh reality". If they need shopping delivered, it should be left at their door. People shouldn't go into their flats or houses, and if they absolutely have to, they should observe good hand hygiene and stay two metres away minimum at all times. No tactility. Of course this can be much easier said than done.

Those who are younger and with no underlying health conditions should be fine. In most cases they SHOULD get it so that they build an immunity and don't pass it on. It may not be pleasant, but they'll get through it. Younger people still need to be careful though: they should be mindful about who they come into contact with and who *those* people will come into contact with. Everyone has a responsibility. People should try not to visit the elderly for at least three-four months if they can. We have to look at the bigger picture.

This is a very difficult time. People should eat well, de-stress and sleep well. They should look after their immune systems and their physical and mental health.

One good thing that we agreed on is that the current food shortages in the UK shops are likely to be short-term, and the stocks will go back up as people run out of stockpiling space and mentally adjust. We are currently in a period of psychological panic and denial here - denial of the seriousness of the situation - but people will adapt over time and dealing with the virus will become a way of life.

Good luck to everyone and stay safe.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 05:15 AM   #80
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i were taking a hike around park area near where i live and saw surprisingly much ppl, old ones also. yesterday i were at local shopping mall and it were deserted.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 05:42 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnturn View Post
It's my understanding that we weather the flu fairly easily as it originated in humans and many have a natural immunity to much of it.
Not quite true. Flu viruses are native to birds and most of the variants are exclusive to them. The ones that cross over into humans usually do so by way of pigs. Some of these are completely new to us and then we have a pandemic, like with Spanish and Asian Flu. Seasonal B-type flu is exclusive to humans (I think) but it must have come from birds originally. It's just been with us for so long that it's become completely adapted to living inside us. That's true of some coronaviruses too. They have become established in us and only cause colds.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 09:37 AM   #82
rokytnji
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USA control guidelines.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health...-statutes.aspx

My area

Quote:
Texas


Texas Health and Safety Code § 81.083; § 81.085


Police Power & Limitations. The state, a county or a hospital district shall pay for medical expenses if an individual is indigent and cannot pay and if that individual is not eligible for benefits under an insurance contract. In addition to the rights of an individual described in Subsections (1) and (2), an individual subject to an order of restriction may not be terminated from employment if the reason for termination is based solely on the fact that the individual is or was subject to an order of restriction.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 09:52 AM   #83
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Why does it take a plague to make the American health industry show a little common humanity?
 
Old 03-19-2020, 11:59 AM   #85
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Chloroquine Treatment for Coronavirus Showing ‘Tremendous’ Results, according to US President.

Chloroquine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/...malarial-drug/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Gn33dbdR1KyS0Q

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article...01047/_article

https://www.nature.com/articles/s414...YBvX0IsmnhD07w
 
Old 03-19-2020, 01:30 PM   #86
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Scammers taking advantage.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/03/...ney-mule-pool/
 
Old 03-19-2020, 02:16 PM   #87
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
The Coronavirus Distraction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_CcepTgaM
In the first few minutes of that video Ron Paul asks "Yes, there are going to be some deaths, but compared to what?"

Here's a current answer. Worldwide common seasonal flu per type on average result in ~0.1% death rate. For Covid-19 the CDC estimates a ~1.0% death rate worldwide (10 timee that of common flu). With similar statistical anomalies to reported cases in common flu, so far Covid-19 has actually resulted in 4.09% death as of today. That percentage may be skewed a bit by Italy which has now surpassed all of China's reported Covid related deaths, being completely overwhelmed from lack of preparation, but as you can see estimates by CDC are not even remotely close to overestimating let alone providing "hysterical distraction" on the seriousness of Covid-19. Balance is essential in all things but the consequences of overestimating any threat are far easier to live down than underestimating any threat. I sincerely hope you are personally careful and that you and your loved ones fare well.

*The above global numbers are from a BBC report which I chose exactly because the UK was quite vocal in underestimating the threat until just days ago. The CDC estimate was directly from the CDC website. The World Health Organization currently estimates 3.4% death rates from Covid-19 on average, as opposed to also estimating 0.1% for common flu..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51964307

TLDR - Covid-19 is ~35 times more deadly globally than common flu so far.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 02:27 PM   #88
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Why does it take a plague to make the American health industry show a little common humanity?
That is a VERY good question and I sincerely hope this Covid experience will punctuate exactly that point. Roughly 3000 people died in the 9/11 attacks in the US and that utterly changed US and much of Global future after 2001. It would be wonderful if only 3000 die from Covid in the US but since Italy alone has already exceeded that number, that seems unlikely wishful thinking. Whatever the number turns out to be, I hope the impact on world future results in a commensurate impact on people's views of what matters most.
 
Old 03-19-2020, 04:33 PM   #89
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Hi enorbet,

Regarding Dr. Ron Paul's question, Death rate compared to what? He was asking a rhetorical question based on scientific inquiry, mainly, what data are the researchers/policy makers/virologists using and what is it being compared to. This was also covered in depth in the second video I added from the German pulmonary Dr. and a leading expert in the EU.

If you take only the number of confirmed cases and use that as a base for a mortality rate then you will get a certain number. If you base it on those in the ER you get another number. Those in ICU another number. What about those who had 2 or 3 health problems plus corona virus, how do you determine that it was only the virus that killed them? Are they using numbers from people who were going to die anyway, ie: they were already critically ill in the nursing home and were on hospice?

Why aren't they using the same baseline data as seasonal flu and other pandemics: ie: calculate total approx. infected as a percentage of population then determine the approx. mortality based on total population. For instance, approx. 30 million to 65 million (sometimes close to 100 million) season flu infections in the USA each year, with a mortality range of 30,000-80,000 etc...

Also, as the German physician/scientist (prior video posted) stated every year between 7-15% of all flu infections are coronavirus type flu.

PS: posted again for convenience:
Stunning insights into the Corona-panic by Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI
 
Old 03-19-2020, 05:12 PM   #90
jefro
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The aluminum cap crowd will argue this and that for decades.

I still say the current easy solution is to allow one to raise their temperature to assist in fighting off this virus. Don't throw drugs at it.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...r/art-20050997

" In fact, fevers seem to play a key role in fighting infections" Wellll DUH!

However, one has to take their information from where they trust.
 
  


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