I wonder how you can reconcile these two attitudes.

Strictly speaking none of these are vaccines because "vaccine" is vaccinia (cowpox) virus injected into people to stop them getting smallpox. All other "vaccines" are made from non-vaccinia viruses (measles, mumps, polio, yellow fever and so on) so really we should have called them something different from the start.

Just being pedantic...

This just isn't accurate. There is no effective difference between "an attenuated fragment" and the RNA.

When Louis Pasteur was asked to test his vaccine against Anthrax, he prepared to inject a saline solution containing Anthrax cells he had isolated from infected animals in the test sheep and his nemesis instead insisted he slice the skin of the sheep and rub a stick that had been rubbed in the blood of an infected sheep. Pasteur's contagion preparation was far stronger than his rivals.... naturally, and more effectively administered..but the outcome was effectively the same.

The purpose of "attenuated fragment" is similar. It acts as an identifier of an enemy to the immune system. It's just that, like the sheep's blood, our bodies must process the cell fragments to get to the chemical signature. RNA just eliminates the middle man and renders the exact identity.

Enorbet, "mRNA does something." A true vaccine merely exposes your immune system to something under safe conditions."

There's a world of difference between the two.

A vaccine sensitizes your immune system to recognize something even though the thing that it is recognizing cannot harm it.

mRNA causes your body to produce the thing that you want it to fight. Every cell throughout your body which responds to this rogue message will eventually be killed.

- - -

igadoter: "Benefits don't exceed risk" if your loved-one is now dead, or blind, or paralyzed, or had a stroke ...

All of this done in the name of defending that person against something having a 99.7% survival rate.

Regardless exposes and sensitizes your immune system causes the body to do something and that something could be minor symptoms of the actual disease.

Very simply...

There are 5 main types of traditional vaccines i.e. Live, attenuated (examples MMR and Chicken Pox), inactivated (example Polio), Toxoid (examples are diphtheria and tetanus) , Subunit (example whopping cough) and Conjugate (example HiB). They basically all work by imitating an infection and causing the body to build antibodies.

The mRNA vaccine works not by putting weakened or inactivated germs into our bodies but instead teaches immune cells in the body into how to make the harmless spike protein in the case of COVID and just like a traditional vaccine will then learn how to produce antibodies. Once the protein is in place the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them. Unfortunately unnamed media outlets will twist the facts...

Researchers have been studying mNRA vaccines since the 1990s and Moderna is a combination of the word modified and RNA. This isn't something that just happened since the outbreak of COVID.

Thank you, michaelk.

Sheesh! A quick web search shows that there's tons of info out there about "mRNA vaccines". Does it really matter if somebody (in these threads or elsewhere) thinks the word "vaccine" shouldn't be used to describe them? Everyone's calling them "vaccines" anyway. Just read up on the subject and see for yourselves how these vaccines differ from "traditional" vaccines. Whatever you wanna call 'em, probably a good idea to get the freakin' shots, just try to make an informed decision. Don't rely on what some random "expert" posts at Linux forums, do your own research!

Edit: Ugh. Sorry, kinda woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Feeling disgusted with the vaccine / not a vaccine debate. Also anything that smells like conspiracy theory crap.

Not necessary. We have even faint idea what are possible contraindications. Even shot against flu got ones. I remember well as my doctor told me. Why people feeel good after covid shot? For the same reason as many infected never get sick. They didn't even notice. My optimistic estimate is that in countries with three waves - 99.9% populace was infected at least once. This is why now is relatively quiet till time new strain will start to spread. We all have anti-bodies. Some because of vaccines - others in natural way.

^ Yeah, sure.

Anyhow, despite being very vocal about it, it doesn't matter if a small minority does not get vaccinated.

Also: do not throw numbers around without anything to back them up. There's a 99.6% probability I will first get very annoyed about it, then just ignore it.

The best we can get is around 94% of vaccines effectiveness. But I suspect it is at the best. Say among 50 million of people vaccinated circa 3 mln are still vulnerable. They can spread virus and/or get sick. Does it small minority?

Just to be contrarian, here's Eric Weinstein on conspiracy (if you can spare a few moments): https://youtu.be/A0Lf8eP41vs?t=570

Interestingly, the Irish Government is currently trying to rush to vaccinate it's population, because they are afraid of another 'Delta' wave.

They've sourced 1 million Astrazeneca & Johnson & Johnson vaccines from Romania, because the vaccine take-up was only ~63%, and they have to get used fast. They are also negotiating with Bulgaria where the vaccine take-up is only 43%. As all the figures are thrown out once from last night's news, don't quote me.

I can't agree that in countries who have experienced 3 waves, 99% would have been infected. Ireland had had 3 waves, with a population of ≅5 Million, & we have had under 275,000 cases, or 5.5% of the population. 53.3% have had one vaccine dose, and ≅40% have had two. Huge efforts are being made to fast track 2nd doses to avoid a Delta wave, as it's 70% of our cases now.

We have been vaccinating strictly the oldest, then next oldest. So case numbers are relatively high, but hospitalisations are very low.

I think my estimates are correct. People don't get tests because they are afraid of quarantine. I feel good but test shows I am infected - but quarantine is not an option for me. I can loose my income - whatever. As long as I feel good forget about tests. Irresponsible? But if you have family to feed? People have to pay their debts: no matter of what.

Yes, I know the harsh realities of life. Covid, however, means serious illness or death for those over a certain age. I presume you didn't leave a trail of death & illness in your wake, so I presume you must have been very lightly infected?

While the young are less likely to die from COVID there are many that suffer from long term effects. Not something desirable.

No test is 100% accurate and therefore you can be a false positive or negative. If you actually have COVID you could asymptomatic but are still be able to spread the disease. Since the disease is easily spread you could of literally infected hundreds of people.

I'm sorry, my previous post was slightly off:
There's a 94% probability I will get annoyed about numbers being thrown around without anything to back them up.