It was never possible for all nation vaccination program to succeed. Neither in term of logistic or in social or psychology. People are often irrational - so rational arguments for take vaccine cannot work for most. In terms of logistic there is no such structures which allow produce billion of doses and assure they disposal among billion people in period of 3-4 months. The way opinion, media works dishearten people - say here only few sportsmen decided to take shot - only few celebrities in public took shot - people are looking at them. Some important public figures - yes - but 50% thinks it was fake. Modern society works in way which makes impossible global vaccination. Situation is even worse in democracies - because in such countries any attempt to enforce vaccination may lead to serious political unrest. And I think - government proposing obligatory vaccination - it would be suicide for such government.
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I wonder how New York City alone managed to fake up to 800 new Covid deaths per day for March, April and May 2020 and months of new cases hitting over 5000 per day??? However NYC conspirators are pikers compared to India who just in the past two months have managed to fake 4000 new Covid deaths per day!! Busy little bees, eh? ... and of course there is no correlation at all between rising cases and deaths in India because of lack of effective vaccine and the massive drop in US cases and the 60+% vaccine deployment... none! <sarc>
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However, if we reach herd immunity that will be less a factor, help the immune compromised and others that can not be given the vaccine some protection.
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Have you folks already discussed what is happening in India these days?
It's horrendous. Today's news item: Amid India's COVID-19 surge, dozens of dead bodies found floating in Ganges River Doctors and journalists say official numbers are under-representing the real situation between five- and twenty-fold. Whoever can should give to COVAX. I wonder how though? There's no website with a friendly green "Donate" button... |
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Coronaviruses mutate too but a lot less than flu does. So, for example, current vaccines work perfectly against the original and the Kent variants but not so well against the South African (though they will stop you getting it badly). I don't know about the Indian variant though. That's why we may also need occasional boosters with these vaccines too. The concept of herd immunity was originally developed for infections like measles and smallpox that almost never mutate. I first came across the phrase during the MMR controversy and that was a long time ago. It wasn't invented for covid. |
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Nope, the term community or herd immunity has been around for a long time.
The threshold for herd immunity is around 75 percent for the flu but maybe 50 percent get vaccinated at least in the US so it is never reached. But since it easily mutates we need a vaccine every year. On the other hand most children get a polio vaccine and there have been zero cases in the US since 1979. In this case there is herd immunity. Although the number of cases worldwide is low it has been increasing in recent years. As an example the smallpox plague killed 1/3 to 1/2 of the world population at the time to reach natural immunity. Essentially smallpox has been eradicated worldwide due to a vaccine. Vaccines are not new. They have been around since 1798. |
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The custom (called variolation) died out in Europe, probably because it was considered to be a medieval superstition, but they continued to do it in Turkey. An Englishwoman called Lady Montague brought it back from there and had her own children variolated. The problem with variolation was that it did actually give you smallpox, and occasionally someone got it badly. So people usually only resorted to it when there was an epidemic. Edward Jenner's great invention was to use harmless cowpox instead. |
@michaelk so they is no heard immunity because people has to get vaccine against flu every year. But there is much simpler method to fight flu: wearing masks. Exactly - masks are very effective against flu. However we do not like wear masks because of social behavior. Or we start to learn how to smile with eyes only.
Edit: I may add that comparisons this virus - this modified coronavirus - to viruses we know already - is misleading. The first we need justification that such comparisons are correct. As well this coronavirus can be complete new phenomenon - which may change what we know about. My picture of situation is that the coronaviruses are like rabbits in Australia. Coronaviruses damage natural balance. So we don't have natural protection against them. Even in terms of vaccines - which just support our own immunological system. We are defenseless. Because coronavirus is something artificial - made by us. Pandora box. Edit: One can think about vaccines as message from community of bio-technologists: we created this damage but we can repair it. Edit: What is at stake here are restrictions, deep strict control, criminalization of bio-technological research. Say weapon company can built bomb - but I can't build it in my home. So bio-technologists are now try to play a role of a savior. If they fail - governments would have to reconsider their stance about such kind of activity. |
If only I could bet on people's responses here - sundial's conspiracy theory post about "Dr. you-know-who" and Bill Gates would have paid off big time...
Don't you guys ever get tired of the pro/anti vaxxer nonsense ? |
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gavi.org (Gavi) and gogiveone.org (WHO) seem to be the most direct ways to give (both organisations are part of the COVAX alliance). There's plenty more options, but I'm leery of any 3rd party involved. So: https://gogiveone.org/ or https://www.gavi.org/covax-facility |
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I'm 64 years old, within my weight range for my height, my A1C is 5, my blood pressure stays around 120/80, resting heartbeat is now 83bpm and oxygen level 98. I'm not diabetic, no high blood pressure, no arthritis, no heart problems, no breathing problems, no back trouble or aliments you might hear others my age mention. As previously stated, I've never had a flu or pneumonia shot in my life. I've lived in Public Housing the last 13 years with 50-60 other apartments in the building and 30-40 in the building on campus next door and residents co-mingle. I'm never sick, never had a cold in my life, haven't had the flu since '96 and by all accounts, according to my doctors, could live another 20 years. Of which I cancelled all scheduled appointments with and stopped seeing not quite a year ago. The only exception being an appointment with one once per year to keep my prescription for ulcer medication refilled and that appointment is already scheduled. I don't go to the doctor unless I'm sick and there's no point in going if they can't do something for me. Nothing seems to kill me, no matter how hard I try. Nothing is closing my eyes. Nothing can beat me down for your pain or delight. (Blow Up The Outside World - Soundgarden) |
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