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Old 06-09-2020, 12:40 PM   #76
rnturn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Where is this practice coming from anyway? I only found one link and it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2j-r6lM3JM connected to Israel.
I heard that same source on a radio program not long after the George Floyd incident. I didn't know that was a thing at the time and immediately thought: Jeebus. .. cutting off the blood supply to a suspect's brain could either a.) kill them, or b.) leave them in a persistent vegetative state. You will never convince me that a beat cop has the medical training necessary to recognize the difference between someone not struggling because they've passed out from loss of blood to the brain and ... death.
 
Old 06-09-2020, 12:57 PM   #77
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I don't feel too good about it, either. Maybe it's a good way to deal with soldiers or something, but for crime fighting? I don't know. Not everyone is top fit, nor an enemy combatant. Not to mention drugs which can already mess with people enough.
The neck also has not that good backwards mobility, so if the suspect is on the ground, on their stomach, there isn't that much one can do with ones head. Resting on someones back seems more safe in that regard. Not a physician though, and being prone can inhibit breathing, too.

It's precarious.
 
Old 06-09-2020, 01:01 PM   #78
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The death of George Floyd was not a racist incident. For it to have been a racist incident, the actions of Derek Chauvin would need to have been motivated by some sort of racial animus. To my knowledge none has surfaced. Given that much of the media is seeking to make it a racial incident, they don't seem to have uncovered any such hard evidence. I am very sure that they very vigorously searched for such hard evidence and failed to find anything. So this becomes a case of excessive police brutality, which of course should be condemned. Nevertheless, the political left is wrong in forcibly turning it into a racial incident.

Some will contend that the use of brutal force is used disproportionately against blacks. That may well be true. Others also claim that the statistics have been sliced and diced to "show" that Blacks have been picked on. That may also be true. Nevertheless, there appears to be no evidence presented that Derek Chauvin demonstrated racial animus in using excessive force.

Moreover, there is case of David Dorn, a retired Black police Captain who was killed by looters, all apparently Black. Were is the emotional outrage for David Dorn?

When it comes to violence in the Black community, those on the political left are universally deaf and blind to it. The only allowed mantra is that the Black community is a victim of white racism. Anyone speaking otherwise is forcibly condemned and is immediately ostracized. Those on the political left need to examine what the Black community can do for itself to end Black on Black violence. The political left, instead of blaming others, should examine the unfortunate death of David Dorn, at the hands of apparent Black looters who are also effectively destroying their own communities. The Black community is not necessarily the victim in all situations. The Black community, needs to look into the mirror for some self-examination.
 
Old 06-09-2020, 01:45 PM   #79
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SteveR, I would put your asbestos suit on right now. I think that you are about to get flamed. You are not following the narrative. Blacks are innocent victims, whites are bad.

1. The police are rougher with blacks than with whites, I've seen this all my life. The police are scared more of blacks I think. And that is because blacks are more violent. That's not an impression, that is documented fact. 12-14 percent of the population, 50-60% of all violent crime. And then there is indeed the racist problem. Some whites are bad.

2. When blacks are told to do stuff by the police, they refuse to do it and resist, violence escalates with police until black man is on ground bleeding, mother says my boy is pure as the driven snow. Neighbors say that he was a gentle person. Comes out later that he has a rap sheet 2 pages long. The schools are actually having to teach the kids that the police do have lawful authority to arrest you. You can't just walk away from them to your safe space.

3. Agenda driven media makes sure and shows any conflicts with black men/white police all over country, so that people will riot. If it was a white man on the ground they will often times ignore the story. No really, they do indeed do that.

4. Some police have a power mad mentality. Message is clear. You will obey me or this is what will happen. We are your masters. Those choke holds are taught to police by their departments. They aren't there just to arrest people, they are there to make you obey.

5. Governmental agencies are out of control. Until they are forced back within their constitutional parameters of authority, this will continue. They have power and they like it. You should see how they treat those prisoners when they bring them into the county jail. Oh, they like it. Humiliating strip searches for women by male police, uh...cavity searches..I'm surprised that more police aren't shot.

6. The nations courts, in particular the US Supreme court, have become criminal organizations functioning outside of the rule of law. They can not be relied on to give justice or even obey the law themselves.

As one poster said, this goes a lot deeper than a poor black man getting killed, or a little red neck racism.
 
Old 06-09-2020, 02:58 PM   #80
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@teckk: You may well be correct. On another forum I used the word "hysterical". I was immediately condemned of insensitivity based on the ancient origin of the word, despite the fact that there is no gender association in today's usage as defined in the dictionary that I used. The world of Orwellian Newspeak crushes everything before it.

Just as I finished posting, your item #4 reminded me of an old event were I was a volunteer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
4. Some police have a power mad mentality. Message is clear. You will obey me or this is what will happen. We are your masters. Those choke holds are taught to police by their departments. They aren't there just to arrest people, they are there to make you obey.
We were walking a trail (as part of an organized search group) to locate a missing runner who had failed to check-in. A sheriff's helicopter suddenly appeared. Over the loudspeaker the deputies in the helicopter had the audacity to essentially tell us to leave the search area since the search was under their authority. Talk about arrogance!

Last edited by Steve R.; 06-09-2020 at 03:52 PM.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 01:59 AM   #81
enorbet
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Teckk the above Post #79 is one of the more collectivist, racist posts I've ever seen you make. Statements like "blacks are more violent" have zero basis in fact and what in the hell is "blacks are innocent victims, whites are bad" ? Do you actually believe that ancestry dominates behaviour? Have you ever heard of The Bell Curve? I submit that culture has a far more potent affect on human behaviour and even that isn't across the board even with those with the same parents!

Just for the record and a scientifically proven fact, there is more genetic difference between all the various tribes/ancestry just in Africa (not that all blacks are recently from only Africa) than there is between any one tribe and Europeans. Maybe you haven't compared pygmies and Watusi for example, but this is absolutely true. There have been numerous DNA samples taken from all over the world and in the most remote communities for the scientific purpose of tracing human heritage. It is how we know, for example, that some ancient catastrophe caused early populations to dwindle down to a few thousand individuals, quite possibly as few as 50-100 breeding pairs. We almost didn't make it.

It is also how it has been discovered that a sizable percentage of Homo Sapiens across the world has some Neanderthal genes (not confined to any one so-called "race") and even that doesn't carry any behavioral imperative.

Last edited by enorbet; 06-10-2020 at 02:17 AM.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 07:34 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It IS systemic, largely because so many of our fundamental laws are so old and so much has just been tacked on to those fundamentals in conditions reeking of racism, and perhaps even more basically, class prejudice. It is important to recall that there are currently in office, government officials that are active members of the Ku Klux Klan and presidents as late as Lyndon Johnson, just 50 years ago, were members. Papers from the JFK assassination investigation recently declassified show the latter to be most likely true.
So laws were created in absence of purity and that's enough to label the entire system without evidence? Big deal and not a good enough answer. The Magna Carta was created at a time when guillotines were still in wide use, and large swathes of both the British and American legal communities are still influenced by it. Are we to then call the UK legal system barbaric? Whether you like it or not, countries in existence before 1957 have been built on the very same laws you degrade.

You're going to need to provide an incredible amount of proof alleging that ANY government official is an active member of the KKK (in 2020, not circa the JFK assassination) and without it I will treat your words as movement into TFH territory.

Last edited by RickDeckard; 06-10-2020 at 07:59 AM.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #83
teckk
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https://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/1...al-disparities
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/0...apolis-arrests
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-21

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...-hit-bjs-study

Facts are racist? Or are they just facts. I don't doubt that being poor makes you steel a loaf of bread. But it is still a fact that you stole a loaf of bread.

The police profile based on that crime data. And that's a whole other subject, profiling.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 07:50 AM   #84
Steve R.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Teckk the above Post #79 is one of the more collectivist, racist posts I've ever seen you make. Statements like "blacks are more violent" have zero basis in fact and what in the hell is "blacks are innocent victims, whites are bad" ? Do you actually believe that ancestry dominates behaviour? Have you ever heard of The Bell Curve? I submit that culture has a far more potent affect on human behaviour and even that isn't across the board even with those with the same parents!

Just for the record and a scientifically proven fact, there is more genetic difference between all the various tribes/ancestry just in Africa (not that all blacks are recently from only Africa) than there is between any one tribe and Europeans. Maybe you haven't compared pygmies and Watusi for example, but this is absolutely true. There have been numerous DNA samples taken from all over the world and in the most remote communities for the scientific purpose of tracing human heritage. It is how we know, for example, that some ancient catastrophe caused early populations to dwindle down to a few thousand individuals, quite possibly as few as 50-100 breeding pairs. We almost didn't make it.

It is also how it has been discovered that a sizable percentage of Homo Sapiens across the world has some Neanderthal genes (not confined to any one so-called "race") and even that doesn't carry any behavioral imperative.
You are mischaracterizing what Teckk said in a derogatory negative manner. He did not reference a genetic basis for what he stated. You did gratuitously recognize the cultural factor. But, instead of discussing the cultural factors, you go on into a misleading genetic train of thought.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 08:54 AM   #85
michaelk
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I believe that everyone has some sort of implicit bias which means we are all a bit racist.

We associate white with good and black with bad regardless of race and implicit bias influences behavior and makes people respond to events regardless of their prejudice.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 09:00 AM   #86
teckk
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I believe that everyone has some sort of implicit bias which means we are all a bit racist.
Isn't that true. Great statement of reality.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 10:45 AM   #87
Geist
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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
I believe that everyone has some sort of implicit bias which means we are all a bit racist.

We associate white with good and black with bad regardless of race and implicit bias influences behavior and makes people respond to events regardless of their prejudice.
I wonder if that's simply a matter of light versus dark, luminance wise.
The dark is just more dangerous, human nightvision ain't that good, after all. Not awful, but not exactly eagle eyed either.
And the sun in general is kind of essential to everything else.

Which is funny since light skinned people suffer more in the sun than dark skinned people, but at the same time people who live in really sun heavy regions seem to worship the moon more than the sun.
I don't have any solid knowledge on that, though. Just seems like the case to me, as well as making sense, too.

If you're getting boiled all day, a little bit of cool night might just hit the spot.
While in Europe, you risk being stuck in a frozen tundra for a couple of months per year.

So, light skinned people seem to worship the sun, which burns them to shriveled, tumorous tomatoes, suggesting that they're not really the creatures of light they might think they are.
Dark skinned people worship the moon, but if the moon were the only thing we had, we'd all die anyway.

But that's just some musing, again, I'm not even sure if this reflects reality.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 11:16 AM   #88
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Facts are racist? Or are they just facts. I don't doubt that being poor makes you steel a loaf of bread. But it is still a fact that you stole a loaf of bread.

The police profile based on that crime data. And that's a whole other subject, profiling.
Being poor isn't a result of race unless there is a racist system in place that draws some line at skin color, which is exactly why Amendment 15 reinforces that point of view and outlaws such action and perception. It's poverty that is the cause if the "loaf of bread" case, not race. Despite that law, the data shows that "men of color" make up the high percentage of convicted criminals because that is an unbroken circle, a self-fulfilling condition. The effect becomes the cause becomes the effect becomes the cause. It's what is called "a vicious circle".

If you randomly pick just a few hundred people from any specific culture or genetic background, the entire spectrum of human personality types will exist within each and every group. They may exhibit similarities in other areas, as does any culture, but personality and morality is not defined by genetics.
 
Old 06-10-2020, 11:18 AM   #89
enorbet
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Originally Posted by Steve R. View Post
You are mischaracterizing what Teckk said in a derogatory negative manner. He did not reference a genetic basis for what he stated. You did gratuitously recognize the cultural factor. But, instead of discussing the cultural factors, you go on into a misleading genetic train of thought.
Sorry you took offense but it was not gratuitous. I think it is important to define and recognize the line between "culture" and "genetics".
 
Old 06-10-2020, 11:26 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDeckard View Post
You're going to need to provide an incredible amount of proof alleging that ANY government official is an active member of the KKK (in 2020, not circa the JFK assassination) and without it I will treat your words as movement into TFH territory.
David Duke? Arthur Jones? Paul Nehlen? Sean Donahue? John Abarr? Augustus Invictus? Tom Tancredo? Joe Arpaio? Steve King? Corey Stewart? Matt Gaetz? Dana Rohrabacher? Lou Barletta? and these are just the tip of the iceberg of White Supremacists in or seeking office circa 2019. Did they disappear in one year?
 
  


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