Just FTR, quickquestion111, in context, Jocko stated that in extreme cases where citizens do not merely refuse to cooperate, but in cases where the citizen introduces violence and especially if it is not yert known if that citizen is armed, THAT is when chokeholds are needed and justified and I agree IF as was also mentioned these officers are well-trained in "appropriate response" and how to defuse potentially violent confrontations.

There are good videos of journalists on "ride alongs" some of whom are ex-military or ex-police who show videos of apprehensions where less trained police (some of whom are later suspended) stop a black individual as a random check and he merely backs up and states "Don't touch me I'm just walking home" and the police response is for 3 of them to pile on him and wrestle him to the ground. That's it! Instead of explaining and calming they immediately and for no good reason get physical. This is the root of much of the problem - lack of proper training. Jocko relates how this is mirrored by his experience in Iraq, where such untrained behaviour created animosity toward our troops while properly trained troops gained confidants and helpers through demonstrating they were actually there to help and didn't just view them as "ragheads" or any other demeaning, condescending, adversarial view. The same drama unfolds right here in the US and especially "Inner City". It's a choice and benefits most from training.

True, but that's the future. The future could theoretically be crafted in any way.
The present, however, relies on the past, which we can't change, we can only deal with the effects of the past, which manifests as present, and then shape the future.
But the present is more immediate, and therefore I consider it sensible enough to have certain mind models of something that might have a meaning in the now and then.

Like Tigers, for example, not humans, of course, but I wouldn't bet on a future tiger that loves humans more than contemporary tigers, I'd rather just run away (although running wouldn't really help, I suppose) from them based on collective accounts from the past, etc.

Humans can follow patterns, too. If they are a collective, then sometimes they, well I don't want to say "have to" but it would do them well to behave in a certain way.

Any sort of people who love to migrate, for example, they would always do better if they could make others more accepting of travellers passing through, not doing that makes migrating harder.
Or people who are into a certain fare, or habit. I don't know the details but I think game birds like pheasants and co where spread to several places just because hunting them is considered fun , etc.

And sure, these things are all cultural, but that doesn't mean the effects aren't real.
Mexico, for example. Catholicism is widespread. But, I would wager, that the chance of getting Xipe Totec'd (flayed, etc) is still greater there than, let's say, I dunno, the Faroese Islands or something.
And this is after centuries. The echoes are still around.

I therefore would rather be a racist bigot who avoids spending time there, than go AK AK AK AK AK AK AK with my exposed skull.
(That said, I actually rather like Mexico as an idea, wayyy to hot for me to consider going to. I am not good with heat. The thought of having to deal with baking oven heat24/7 is more intimidating to me than to experience some rather spicy cultural exchanges, more likely too.)

But yeah, this is just more elaboration on a point I've already made, so no essay from me this time.
(In fact, I think I'll take another break from the internet in general again. I don't wanna be a failing artist :P )

"I actually rather like Mexico as an idea"

The actual Mexicans turned Americans I've talked to don't like the idea of going there. There are many places there that aren't hot in higher elevations. The problem is crime.

If you thought the US police were tough, don't test that on any Mexican police. Actually I've seen Japanese police tougher on criminals than the US.

I personally felt safer near Mexican cops holding large assault rifles than I do with American cops and most of Mexico is relatively safe.

Also in Japan the cops have much more training in non-lethal suppression techniques than cops in the US and are less likely to arbitrarily shoot you or your dog.

I had a reply but it is outside the riot issue.

(taken from rokytnji's last post)
That statement sounds insane to me. As if the police were over-funded in the US?

Many people in the US of NA strongly support a low-tax policy, a narrative that lowering taxes is the solution to everything, and sometimes even that "taxes are bad".

In the long run, that narrative has to change or you won't ever get out of that hole.

Welcome to the logic of the American left.

Again there are other forms of holds besides the chokehold. I do agree that better training would ofc be a good idea, but one thing at a time. In fact the introduction of social workers I think will naturally play into some sort of de-escalation type training.

Odd you feel that way considering Mexican police are frequently bribed by the drug cartels, and are corrupt as hell.

The mob has been calling for more spending on "social services". Sounds very appealing and very difficult to argue against. But think about it.

We have had (in the US) 60 years of programs (affirmative action, welfare, educational programs, etc) to help minority communities and to eliminate racism. These programs, if one accepts the claims of the mob that we live with the worst racism ever, have failed. Given that failure, giving more money to resolve the issue of racism won't help.

The mob riles against the State, yet they demand that the State give them what they want (like more social services). For 60 years the State has been giving more and more, but it has never proven to be enough. The mob always wants more. Why should the State give them anything if they never accept what they have been given?

Missing from the discussion on racism is the obligation of the Black community itself to act in a responsible manner. Maybe, I have missed it, but I have not heard much from Black leaders, beyond tepid gratuitous pointless responses, calling for the rioters, looters, and those tearing down statutes to stop their unlawful acts. (Ironically, in the background, the mob is actually demanding more racism in the name of ending racism. Very Orwellian.)

The Black community needs to help itself. I wonder if Black Lives Matter has begun to help rebuild the businesses that have been destroyed by the rioting and looting?

Yes, limited government. No bigger than it has to be to perform it's lawful functions. And no more.
Yes they are. Taxes are a government legally stealing it's citizens money by force. That money doesn't belong to the government, or to my neighbor, or to the collective. That is my property that is being taken from me.

The government does not have any money. The money that government spends is what it took from the citizens. The more they spend the more of our money that they legally steal. It's especially egregious when government takes productive peoples money and gives it to the lazy. That's illegal for the government to do in the US, but the government has been doing it for 100 years anyway. (Part of the supreme courts illegal behavior that I mentioned before)

We have completely different ways of thinking don't we? When my neighbor has a baby, that's their responsibility to pay for and raise that kid, not mine.

Or lets put it another way. If I have to pay to raise your kid, whether I like it or not, then I demand that you come to me and get permission to have a kid first, so that I can decide if I want to pay for it or not.

And yes, that means that in evil capitalism, the hard working, productive, risk taking, long suffering people tend to get richer over time.

The lazy, worthless, illegal drug using, alcoholic, can't keep a job, free spirit types tend to stay in poverty.

Part of the left/right butting heads problem in the US for the last 40 years.

Like I said most of Mexico is relatively safe, maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read in the news. The dangerous areas are closer to the US border or coastal, the cartels are mostly interested in profits and are not going to be found where there are none.

I'm not as adamant concerning the issue that taxation is always theft. I divided the taxation issue into two themes. First, taxation is necessary to pay for many necessary governmental services, such as sewer, water, power, police, fire, etc. Taxation, for those purposes is acceptable since they are necessary for citizens to live in today's society.

However, second, taxing "wealthy" people (however that is defined) to give (transfer) the money to "poor" people (however that is defined) is theft. Additionally, how much is enough to achieve "equality" is a very slippery slope subject to very biased interpretations. Should a "rich" person be unjustly taxed so that a "poor" person could buy a TV?

As I wrote in an earlier post, we have had 60 years of government aid to minority communities. The problems of the minority community still persist. Throwing tax $$$$ at the problems has not solved them. Time to rethink the appropriateness of spending tax $$$$ on those programs.

As a follow up to the concept of "how much is enough", I will digress into the minimum wage issue. As the years have gone by, one can see that whatever the minimum wage was at a particular time, it was never enough. The very day a new minimum wage is passed into law, the demands are for another hike. So it is with taxing the "rich" to help the "poor". No amount of money will ever be enough.

The taxation issue also involves the transfer of federal monies to the states. Regrettably the states have become dependent on these federal dollars. This is NOT FREE money. Virtually everyone forgets this. The federal government is currently involved in deficit spending. The federal government is not collecting sufficient tax dollars. The states need to fund their services on locally generated tax dollars, not on "free" money from the federal government.

Neatly ignoring the rest of my argument, which goes in a rather different direction.

Yes, it seems some people are overly eager to fix things quickly now - things that needed fixing for decades - by all means possible. Which isn't much.
No doubt the hope of winning the national boxing match in November pushes agendas.

I'll bet on professional training any day over "social workers".