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Old 10-21-2003, 10:43 PM   #16
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Also, a degree proves that you can learn at a high standard, and retain the information in your head.

I beg to differ on that. A degree does not mean someone can learn or retain info. Each person is different and I have seen total idiots with degrees. It has been mentioned here many times that a degree and or certs will not land you a job, but experience and knowledge go along way.
Old 10-22-2003, 04:39 AM   #17
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Yea but who will your to be employer know you poses those skills?
I just disagree that an diploma like that is worthless. If anything, a good diploma from an good college (or university) says you have the endurance to learn something.
Old 10-22-2003, 07:17 AM   #18
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well im studying Computer Science now, although i had wanted to change to study Psychology.

For me its difficult to say, with a bit of luck i will never have to work for anybody but myself. Of course thats fairly unrealistic, but i do not intend to be sat around programming for a long period of time (i dont like programming much anyway )

I think degrees here (UK) are actually more valuable than they are in the US. I remember watching a tv program about it, that we had to be careful not to make our degrees worthless.

I think more than anything, a degree helps, it shows you are capable of learning to a high level. At the end of the day, a degree is way above A Levels (or whatever you take in USA)

Im not doing Comp Sci to get a job out of it straight afterwards, im doing it to learn more about the subject but i do wish i was studying Psychology instead =/ only because it looks more interesting, iv no plans to work in Psychology or Computing later in life

im just waffling over nothing, but study what you would enjoy, the subject area isnt too vital imo
Old 10-22-2003, 09:17 AM   #19
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Well. As schatoor said. It should show that research is possible, as at University you understand how to do research. But, twilli227 is correct that experience does go a long way. It's not that people do not retain what they were taught at university. The people that twilli227 is talking about are those who have a degree but do not know how to apply it. You have to retain what you have been taught to pass the degree. So that argument is unsubstantial. But I, myself, would place experience over education IFF I do not need any research carried out. But most bosses these days are blinded by Paper(Degrees) rather than experience. I am the chief engineer in a telecoms company, and I have taken on an "engineer" with experience and removed the "engineer" with the degree, as the later was better at performing the tasks at hand. And Yes, I have a Degree in Electronic Engineering and Computer Science, but I was also lucky to build up years of experience in both categories before attending University. Hence, I am the chief engineer, and do all the research that is needed.
Old 10-22-2003, 12:27 PM   #20
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...and removed the "engineer" with the degree ....
I can't help to feel sorry for the "engineer" who got fired dispte years of eductaion.
So what would you advice someone who want's to go in to IT.
Surely an cert. from red hat for example must be worth something.
Old 10-22-2003, 04:43 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Whitehat
This will suck....but I will say it anyway.

I think IT degrees bite. Myself and others have been better off getting a business degree and just learning IT on your own.

College seems to think that IT degree's are all about math and programming. They don't teach you jack about Networking, and Cisco, and OS's.

We have a guy at work that just graduated with a degree in CS and the Boss is like......"wow this guy don't know shit. I have guys that have no degree but got their MCSE's and have 5 years experience and are way better off"


Until something changes, IT and CS degrees suck.

30 year old Network Engineer with MCSE, Linux+ and 5 years of experience (and a Marketing degree that is worthless )
A computer science degree isn't really designed to give a person the training for an IT-type job. It's designed to educate them to be a computer scientist, software engineer, programmer, etc. They're really different things. If you want to go into IT, a computer science degree is overkill; it won't even teach you the practical skills of how to do system administration and other such IT things.
Old 10-22-2003, 08:39 PM   #22
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I am studing what in your countries is a Computer Sciences Engineering (Ingeniería Civil en Computación, here in Chile), and i'm very scared... Because i have to spend so much time studying some things like Economy, Managment, and all that things that i really don't care.

It's so sad to listen a professor that tells you that "someday you will be at manager, or chief" when what you wish is to live your life learning about CS and Maths...

In 3 years of study i have passed 24 courses... and 4 of them was about CS. The others, Basic Sciences, and Managment.

What the hell is going on in my country??? Is a problem from here? or every place in the world is making from Engineering a Managment career?

I'm scared, because this is not the Engineering that I want.... and i'll like to go for a post degree in CS and Maths, but... I have no time to learn all that i like to learn, now that i have the human and technical resources for it!!

Maybe this is not the exact topic/forum to talk about it, but I really need the sword of cs gurues, and here is where i feel more comfortable to tell my truth.

Thank You.
Old 10-27-2003, 02:42 PM   #23
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might i suggest a computer engineering degree? thats what i'm doing now. i think you can learn the IT things basically on your own. or do what i ended up doing, find a club on campus that needs a sys admin/IT guy and be that dude. you learn lots on your own that way as well as meeitng new people and whatnot. so that now only do you have all the complex theoretical stuff they teach you in school but practical things you learn too. i dunno, works for me. its not for everyone.

come to think of it, id on't know how many schools actually offer computer engineering as a degree. and you might not be interested in the electrical engineering aspect of it all. i dunno, i'd say find some schools, see how their programs are ranked, visit them, ask around, talk to counselors and whatnot. do a little research and you will find the right place with the right program.

and claus, i haven't or ever plan to take a business type class ever. i've been in school for only 2 yeras and about 80% of my classes so far have been engineering, computer science, math, or physics classes. come to think of it, i usually take 4 classes per semester and 3 of those classes are major related. the other class each semester i take to satisfy my honors degree citation. right now its a theology class.

Last edited by sk8guitar; 10-27-2003 at 02:46 PM.
Old 10-27-2003, 03:47 PM   #24
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there is nothing but Physics... major in Physics
Old 10-29-2003, 04:03 PM   #25
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The sad truth is that there are too many variables involved in such a simple question to give a simple answer. Degrees and certifications are both ways to differentiate yourself in what has been a tight economy for computer-related jobs. But don't forget the value of experience. It is certainly plausible that someone with 15 years of system administration experience with no college degree or certifications could know way more than somone with an IT degree + MCSE right out of college.

For myself, the difference between a Computer Science degree and an CIS/MIS/IT degree is that Computer Science deals with the science of programming and software engineering. CIS/MIS/IT (IMHO) deals more with networks, infrastructure, and information management. Sure, there is overlap between the two, but there is enough distinction between the two that one of them should line up with what you want to do with your career.

I think what many people fail to realize is that computing career nirvana is not achieved when you get a degree or achieve a certification. Sure, throw yourself a little party and take off a couple of weeks from studying. However, if you wish to succeed in this industry, you need to constantly be looking for opportunities to increase your knowledge and you set of skills. You can't just shut it off now that you've graduated from college.

Personally, I entered this field at a good time (1995) and had a lot of great opportunities that I know today's students may not have because of a lack of experience and a tight economy (at least in the US). My advice is to pick the degree that most aligns with your career plans, get as many certifications as possible relating to that path, and get ACTUAL work experience in the field you wish to pursue, even if that means taking a crappy hourly rate at first. The experience of having one or two jobs under your belt will open a lot of doors.

Of course, all of this advice pertains to a perfect IT world where there are plenty of jobs to go around for anybody who wanted them. LOL YMMV

Hope my $0.02 helped.


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