How could one not see the similarities between the number of the beast prophecy and a chip implant as described within the links I provided? Yes, I have the number 666 at the end of my user name. So? :P What is your point exactly?

I'm interested in the historical/educational/personal amusement value in any possible connections between the concept of the number of the beast in the bible and any current or future technology which may be required use by most or all one day. I'm not interested in this because of Christianity, nor would the number of the beast prophecy being proven true in the future motivate me to worship the god mentioned in the bible.

Many enlightened minds may have experienced visions of the future and perhaps they or someone motivated by religious conviction decided to spread the word that vision X,Y,Z was due to god X,Y,Z for reason X,Y,Z or whatever. In no way does that prove a god(s) to me. I'm more interested in how the human mind factors into this experience of seeing future events rather than how an invisible force (which may or may not exist) may have caused these visions. How much can modern science tell us about our dreams? About people who have shown knowledge of the future? How much about the powers of the human mind are yet to be discovered?

And really: what of these chips? Will they or chips of a future design eventually become mandatory for everyone? Will we all become one large distributed computing project? Will we no longer need to watch news because it will be delivered to us all at once via chip or a product that works with the chip? What concerns me about the possibilities of these or chips of some other design becoming mandatory for everyone is not so much the chips themselves but of the whole idea of them becoming a means of trusted identification. If they are relied upon and the bad guys find ways to get around them (like, duh, not having them at all or removing/tweaking/forging them) what additional technology will we need? What of identify theft? Isn't anyone worried about that? I don't know about you, but it's one thing if someone mugs me and takes my wallet. It would be quite another if they held me up for my ID card and it's in the form of a device WITHIN my body. What then? If these were similar devices that could be worn outside the body, that is one thing. It's quite another to force people to put things into their bodies. If this becomes the norm, I can only imagine what lies beyond it in the future. EULA's at birth?

I've studied the world's living religions (so as to reading the "word" of the bible, I've been there done that) and I'm currently studying the ancient religions. (which I find much more interesting than Christianity) I would rather this thread not contain discussions on the topic of religious conversion and rather focus on the details in my first post. It's been my experience that when the Bible (or any mention of god and religion) is discussed, the thread quickly spirals out of control on web forums. Let's please refrain from discussing any one religion as far as proof of god(s) and conversion is concerned. :)

I guess I started this thread at an especially interesting time because just yesterday Slashdot.org had this article: "Biometric ID Cards Ready For Trial In UK" which links to a BBC article. I was amused to see that someone posted about Digital Angel saying quote:"...will they do. the next step in this obvious progression is forced implantation of ID chips along the design of digital angel, or maybe with even more advanced "features" that you won't really like. I've read what they are working on, and it isn't hard to imagine what the controllers really want, is it? So what then? Just take it? This isn't a joke anymore or any sort of gee whizz might be coming in the real far away future, this could be here any day if they feel like implementing it by law, the tech is here already.

How do you say NO forcefully enough if it's illegal and you have a population that is effectively disarmed completely and has a police and military force that will follow any orders given to them without question? Sometimes the law is just so blatantly wrong that you have no recourse.

I mean, just about anyone can smell this coming next, in GB, in Canada, in the US, eventually everywhere by governments. Governments may be slow, but they eventually get around to using every sort of advanced technology for the "command and control" aspects of society. Well, just run a very conservative extrapolation here, you can see what's coming next." unquote.

Another user posted in response to that Slashdot article the following, quote: "Once again - for the propaganda merchants in government:

ID cards in Spain did not stop the bombings.

I do not believe the stupidity of all this.

The government have complete contempt for the UK public - they want a Big Brother Surveillance Society.

People are treated like sheep by them - what is worse - most folks accept it.

Governments must think all the public are intellectually challenged morons.

ID Cards are a Red Herring - something that draws attention away from the central issue.

FACT: it will be very simple to identify you absolutely anywhere with a portable eye/finger scanner - without your ID Card.

Once data is transmitted to base they can have your identity within seconds.

The ID Card itself is totally irrelevant - it is a means to an end.

You could be stopped anywhere and authorities would know everything about you - they would not need your ID card.

They will have effectively branded a number on every person.

Just like in 1942, when Nazi's began tattooing numbers on the left forearm of all prisoners.

Find ANYBODY in Government to deny that you can be read like a barcode on a bag of peas at the supermarket till.

They are treating us all like criminals - putting everybody's fingerprints and eye scans on file.

The ID Card propaganda is for several reasons, including: a) making you feel safer b) to say the government are doing something and c) the more malicious motive of privacy invasion.

It is clear that Governments want a surveillance society.

When you are stopped by police:

"Just look into this eye scanner sir."

Beep..beep..Garry Anderson..49..male..speeding camera violation spotted..

Linking these systems up will just be the start of things - just exactly what Tony and David want.

Of course, many blinkered and intellectually challenged members of public would say Big Brother is a good thing."end quote

There were several other user replies which were especially interesting but I wanted to quote two of them here for the sake of hearing your reactions to these posts here while we're on the topic of this chip.

Another article from yesterday from another site:

"Police will be able to order eye scans under ID card plan" and a very small quote from the article:

"David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, said ID cards should be introduced without delay if civil liberties and technical objections could be overcome." Heh. Well there you have it folks. Welcome to our brave new world.

Didn't or don't the Amish people not agree with having pictures taken of them because it "steals their soul" or for other reasons? If that's true, I wonder how many people will suddenly become Amish in the future? :P

Instead of all this chip business, why not focus on inventions that can be proven to help all of mankind? Like this? Smells better to me.

it will be VERY hard to escape from

to refuse to have such a card/chip will lead to prosecution
in order to be inducted into the prison system you will need a valid card/chip

either they will force it upon people (physically if necessary)
or
after making it impssible to get benefits, medicine, hospital treatment without such a card/chip
to refuse would mean loss of housing and employment

the choice being
opt in and have the chip/card/mark

or be homeless and hungry


stark choice


here's another thought
possibly related

what would happen if the banks (all of them) called in EVERY debt tomorrow?

And so it begins....

"Wal-Mart starts RFID test, promises privacy"

Once RFID becomes the norm, I wonder how long it will take before implantable microchips are accepted, being as IMO I see RFID as just preparing people for the implants. After all, in one article they already IMO try this by comparing the implant chips to pacemakers.

Big brother is here. Satan will rule the world. Resistance is futile, LOL

Okay, this thread and just its subject alone is a very sensitive subject. The topic alone or the discussion itself most of the Mods and even Jeremy feel shouldn't even be discussed on the forums. But we're watching it closely.

So far I am amazed that its staying on topic and hasn't started any flaming and so on, but I have to say this, that last post by you Bajanick is not what this "on the brink of closure" thread needs.

Lets keep it clean people and I don't think this is the type of thread to make wise crack jokes in.

Regards.

Agreed. I thank all of the posters to this thread who have kept their posts on-topic and mature. I look forward to reading more posts in this thread posted with a real desire to add something intelligent. And I thank the mods for allowing this thread to continue. Thanks for reading.

Gawd, people scare me. I'm not into prophecy, but if prophecy proves anything to me, it's that human nature as a whole never seems to change for the better. How depressing.

I remember civics classes in High School when they taught us that our rights were God-given, not government-issued. And that the role of our government wasn't to infringe upon our rights (such as privacy and freedom to assemble,) but to PROTECT our rights. They don't teach that anymore. I know, because my husband's a teacher and he despairs at the contents of today's Social Studies textbooks.

If people don't hold Freedom precious in the core of their beings, there's no way to keep it from being eroded. People will actually collude with their gradual loss of freedom and dignity, to gain some ephemeral "security" or "convenience."

I need to go hug my non-micro-chipped cats.

"A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take away from you."
-Ramsey Clark

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

is this a general forume or a stanic forum serving to pessimist

The Mark of The Beast^H^H^H^H^HThe popular chip implant is in the news again. Another Slashdot article with some interesting replies this time:

"RFID Implants for Spanish Revelers"

The Slashdot article links to this article:
"Get chipped, then charge without plastic -- you are the card" and a link to the club's website which "describes the program" (in Spanish) here. You can use Babel Fish to translate the site in Spanish to English.

Here are some interesting quotes from some of the Slashdot posters for the sake of discussion in this thread:

cybergrue said: "What a wierd way of starting an article. I would have thought that 1984 would have been invoked in an article like this, but no, the author means 1974, and talks about Watergate et all. He even goes on to make a pun about Braingate, a brain computer communication tech."

earthforce_1 said: "What was that line in the book of Revelations About needing to receive the "Mark of the Beast" in order to conduct business?

I wonder if the RFID implants have the digits "666" on them anywhere :-P"

Well I find it very interesting that if this does turn out to be the mark of the beast that it is currently known as digital angel. Hmmm.. Gee that's not a name picked to throw off any mark of the beast ideas is it? LOL

ShatteredDream wrote: "Gnosticism got me back out of my malaise into being a christian. I had for a long time dismissed people like Jack Van Impe and Tim LaHaye as wishful thinkers (God will solve our problems) and outright lunatics whose desire for the endtimes was scary as hell. Then I started actually watching what is happening and comparing it to the more mature prophecy.

1) With the Law of the Sea Treaty and UN Convention on Organized Crime and International Criminal Court we are moving towards a true one world government. If the momentum continues, the UN could be a planetary government in 20-30 years with its own tax system, police, legislature and scariest of all: military.

2) Corporations, unions and governments have been conspiring for decades to terminate individual freedom and centralize all meaningful government power in the hands of an unaccountable elite. The US Congress is barely representative of our own population, just imagine how corruptable that sort of legislature would be. The Congress and EU would look like they're dominated by statesmen of the finest calibre by comparison.

3) We have a version of the mark of the beast being propogated in a way that is palitable to the general population.

While I don't think that we're going to see the rapture or anything quite that fantastical, I do think we are going to see some very dark days for mankind coming very soon."

Animats brilliantly posted: "Wait until Vegas gets this. Once this ties in with slots..."

Indeed, and that's a very interesting point to make. Once RFID/chip is accepted in popular areas such as legal gambling centers and common areas for shopping (remember the Wal-Mart RFID article(s)?) the world will soon follow, it's only a matter of time.

quote: "There will be a lot more news about the merging of machines and humans. University labs are doing research. Companies are being started."

A closing quote for this post: "Once implanted, you become your own credit card. Need to pay for a drink? Wave your implant near a reader, and you're done. VeriChip has dreams of going global with its ''human implantable ID technology'' -- once implanted, you could wave a body part to pay for a burger at Wendy's, a beer at a baseball game, or whatever."

You see how this chip is being hyped? Burger, Beer, Baseball, whatever! Dude! It is as I said in my initial post to this thread. IMO it's being marketed to the sheeple first. As with everything, when the common people (sheeple) adopt something, everyone else has to too. And I believe the sheep will (like always) be the ones to usher in this IMO beastly technology, being injected out of lazy convenience and wave their fat sagging arms like disease stricken chicken at scanning machines or plodding by like mindless cattle as the machines scan the foreheads of those who can no longer be bothered to tax their systems with the energy required to move hand to wallet or purse.

If Satan does exist, he never had it easier throughout the history of the world than he does now.

Sing it with me:

"Now the D and the A and the M and the N and the A And the T and the I-O-N Lose your face, lose your name Then get fitted for a suit of flame"
- Squirrel Nut Zippers, Hell (an excerpt from)

this is some very interesting reading... Its funny.. i mentioned this to some co-workers to get there opinions.. A few of them imidiatly knew what this meant.. others thought it was a wonderful idea and welcomed it.

The anti-christ will be deceiving...

I will however refuse to accept this if it is ever mandated, death will come of me first.

I don't like the idea of having to insert chips into people, yes it has benefits, living under a dictator also have benefits, but i love my freedom to much.
As for trey85stang i hope you have the curage to do what you are actually saying, I am not saying it because i thought that i would have the curage to actually take it that far, (I hope i will, though because the only way to protect freedom is fighting)

A small quote from the 4 page Wired.com article entitled:
"Attention, Shoppers: You Can Now Speed Straight Through Checkout Lines!"

(quote)

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads." Katherine Albrecht is reading aloud from chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation. " and that no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.'" This is no wild-eyed street preacher. Albrecht is a Harvard PhD candidate in educational psychology and a reliable media staple, appearing on seemingly every TV or radio talk show on the topic of RFID.

(end quote)

And another interesting link about RFID here:
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/RFID/

further developments

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...=latin_america
(slightly off topic but in the general direction of "having chips implanted is normal and ok")

http://news.com.com/Japan+school+kid...bj=news.1012.5
(ditto)

[tinfoil_hat_on]
Is whole idea is kinda freaky, what if I don't want to be able to wave my hand to buy something, This is no diff. than foucing someone to have there ID tatooed to there forehead.
[/tinfoil_hat_on}

-Joey

if everyone has these chips, paper money will bo obsolete, now how would you like to tell the government everytime you lost a bet? or paid the lawmower kid? say your a kid with your own little place (as lots of kids do). how would you like your parent to see you on a gps screen whenever you wanted alone time?
And what about hackers?