It's Bigger. Why should the chairman of a publicly owned oil company risk his bottom line (and therefore his fabously paying job, his comissions, bonuses & share options) to save the planet? One more year - each year?

We all buy crap?!.

My mic is now in the trash, peace!

I have been a proponent of solar and local wind power - non distributed - since the shortages of 1974. No one really NEEDS the grid, it is a convenience.

I, too remember 1974. And that was only a 10 or 15% cut in oil for a few months. A Gallon of petrol was six shillings and threepence (€0.31¢) before that, but doubled within a year. Some screwballs (of which Ireland has more than it's fair share) were challenged by any limit and kept queueing up for £1 or £2 worth of petrol to keep their tanks full. But they rarely fitted locking petrol caps…

I'm a fan of solar & wind,but Industry needs a grid.

EDIT: So do cities & Skyscrapers, btw.

Itis all in the link.


https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/0...oints-imminent

They still have to control the 'slaves' who work in the outside, no ?

Considering that many of yesterday's luxuries are currently necessities, and I don't mean merely psychologically, I consider such a concept rather quaint and naive at least in a broad view of civilization. If it actually does apply to you,wpeckham, then sincere congratulations, but hopefully you can see that especially as large as human population has become, it does not apply to everyone.

Let's not going to the extreme, let's do whatever we can to help the environment.
I cite a few, very doable.

1- Why after the treadmill, jump into your car then drive to the corner grocery store to buy
a carton of milk ? Why not combining the the two together instead, put on our backpack then
walk or jog. People go to the gym, driving around and around to find a nearest parking place.

2- We live in a suburb where public transportation to downtown Montreal (where most working people
go) is very good, and traffic jams very bad - yet some prefer clinging to their cars to shave a few
minutes per day. People install Waze ... while the buses have reseved lanes, with bridges to cross,
Waze or no Waze, it doesn't help much.
My neighbours own minimum 2 cars per family, some even 3 or more, mostly SUVs.

3- Eat LESS meat, increase our vegetable protein intake. But even meat consumption is not as devastating
compared to the FOOD we throw into our thrash bins.

4- Make us FIT into our old clothes instead of buying new ones. Our health will improve too. Don't care
about words like not COOL, IN/OUT or ZEN ... This is hard for jobs that need to deal with the public, but
please be moderate in our spending.

5- Why change our furnitures/appliances when they still work perfectly ? Just because of their look ?
We are manipulated by the army of marketers to change that 'look'.

6- Reduce our thermostat for heating, increase it for AC.

7- Travel less. Admittedly, this one is hard for me.

8- Use Linux to revive old computers. Do we all need the latest and strongest CPU and GPU for email
or browsing the net ? Do we need the latest iPhone or Samsung ? My daughters, nieces, nephews change
their every 2, 3 years. This is a sad state of affair. I offer this free service to friends/relatives and there are few takers. They instead go for the latest Wintels, some even Macs. They rely on their sons/grand sons for support, who allways badmouth Linux.

Some argue that these actions will depress the economy and create unemployment - but life will adjust itself.
For the sake of our planet, let's do it. The problem is a CULTURE one, we can change it.

Not all of us CAN do many of those. But, and this matters, if we all could it would be trivial next to the contribution of industry and government. Every little bit helps, but compared to the contribution of commercial operations the individual contribution to the problem is trivial.

leclerc78 you started a different but similar thread here whose title is misleading because what you really wanted to and ended up talking about, instead of the Climate Change title, was promoting plant-based diet. There are links to serious evidence in that thread that show that meat is nowhere near "devastating", yet here you are as if none of that evidence mattered or even existed at all. It's worthy of note that you didn't refute, or even attempt to refute, that evidence.

Seriously, if you're happy and healthy with your plant-based diet I am truly glad for you but please consider stopping the spouting of counter-substantiated, overstated, rabbit-hole rumors about the effects on climate of choosing to eat meat.... or... refute the evidence! There are valid reasons for a plant-based diet but the health of our planet isn't one of them as far as I can discern. It's all about balance, in Nature and in ourselves. Be well.

Note: I think the other items are quite solidly good advice wherever possible. I'm actually pretty well aligned.

Whereas the climate goals we can personally achieve are laudable, they are a drop in the ocean besides the things that are wrecking the planet. Let me suggest some totally unrrealistic and unachievable goals which would make a difference now, and as they were phased in.

• Ban all shipping now, as heavy ships are some of the worst polluters.
• Ban all aircraft now.
• Ban all Internal combustion engines, & steam engines from running now.
• Shoot all in Brazil's Government responsible for illegal logging and pay the indigenous tribes to restore the Amazon rain Forest. Ditto the Aborigines in Oz and the Maori in New Zealand.
• Kill all beef herds and all pigs/hogs & chickens to prevent further methane pollution.
• Make sure every premises puts out their pollutants & toilets a distance upriver from where they take in their drinking water.!
• Make city-dwellers pay a 'butt tax' to run sueage treatment plants.
• Make dumping rubbish a capital offense.
• Ban plastic, effluent of any sort.
• etc.

@enorbet
Sorry for the other thread.

We as consumer can dictate their behaviour. They cannot produce recklessly if they
can't sell.

Thank you, leclerc78 for remaining a gentleman. It speaks highly of you I think. My point here wasn't to "call you on the carpet" for posting the other thread but for what appears like a "head down charge" disregarding evidence. To some extent it matters that this isn't some pissing contest between two individuals since several others have noted that the meat industry is not a major component of climate change.

We aren't banging heads much on ethics either since we both want animals to be treated humanely. Our only difference there has to do with what alternatives exist for animals not raised as livestock. AFAIK few people eat predators... lions, wolves, etc with the fairly rare exception of bears. Human meat eaters tend to eat the same species that other predators feed on ie: cows, chickens, lamb, pigs etc. These species unprotected will in fact live worse and die sooner and much worse than livestock. As much as I'd like to see some sort of Paradise for all on Earth, I don't see how that is possible let alone practical. I most certainly don't see it as a result of large numbers of Vegan converts.

I believe you're being overly optimistic about the consumer by attributing to them, as a group, something most just don't have.



They can't even control their own behavior and are powerless to resist Emotional Manipulation that targets the base desires.

"Hello, folks., I'm John Wayne.*** Movie star*** Smoke this brand of cigarette and you'll be Kool as me."

Well, was. Before he got cancer and died. Ignore that fine print Surgeons General Warning. That's John Wayne. ***Movie Star*** Even Kid Rock wants to be a Cowboy, baby.

Speaking of the sugar free cola concoction that beautiful young woman in a swimsuit is putting to her lips. If I drink that chicks will dig me. Who cares if "animal studies have convincingly proven that artificial sweeteners cause weight gain, brain tumors, bladder cancer and many other health hazards." Chicks, man!


They don't even believe they can be manipulated. Some not even able to recognize it when they see it. Others do something because that's the thing to do. Isn't it? I mean everybody else is and I want to fit in with the cigarette smoking, saspirillla drinking Cowboys. Chicks don't dig losers, and I'm a loser, baby, So why don't you kill me.

The list leclerc78 made of things "we" can do to save the environment, tells me more about his lifestyle than moral fiber. And that "zen" is a foreign concept to him:

I will not care abut zen. Ohm... Nothing is what I want. Frank Zappa said so and if he says it...that's what I want, too.

If there is anyone in this thread that is a proponent of taking drastic steps to save the Earth and doesn't turn their computer off before they go to bed each and every night at 9pm, (You do go to bed at 9pm, don't you?), a penguin just died because of your carbon footprint. And I think it was Tux. He was smoking a Kool. Just like Uncle Willy.

Look at that penguin go. I bet you all can ski, sky dive and never get Covid. You got vaccinated and together as one, stronger than dirt.

Because you won't be part of the good guys if you don't get the shot. I'll make sure everyone knows. It's my job to make it known and a vital part of the Marketing Campaign that they know, But how to mass manipulate them all at once, you ask... A card. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Everybody will have a card they can carry to show they are on Team Good Guy, and not like them. Think of what people will say about you if you're not one of us. Because we will shame you publicly and discredit you personally to get your mind right and thoughts squeaky clean.

Be like Willy or no sky diving for you, Mile High Club Man.

You know you want it. I know you dream of it.

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