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Old 11-21-2019, 08:00 AM   #16
//////
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what ingredients are used in a xmas pudding?

we at Finland don't make it. IIRC
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:06 AM   #17
cynwulf
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From cookery to a theological / religious thread. I never doubted any of you for a second...




While the festival of Yule, as practised by Germanic peoples such as the Anglo-Saxon (and Jutish) of "dark ages" England, is certainly a big part of what are today seen as Christmas traditions, the date and timing of the 25th of December has another significance which corresponds to the exact date of the Roman festival of Sol Invictus - and some scholars believe this is related. There is also the Anglo-Saxon pagan Mothers' Night festival which fell on the 24th of that same month.

There are also areas of doubt with regards to the origins of "Father Christmas" and it is likely that there are a few diverse local, possibly legendary, figures who all became blurred into one. One of these is St Nicholas of Myra (Sinterklaas). He certainly fits best with the Christian idea of the character anyway. But many of the characteristics, as we see them today, are most likely of pagan origin - and it is said that Wodan/Odin would appear in the sky during the "Wild Hunt" and was often said to appear on earth as a grey bearded man - who had morphed into "Father Christmas" by the early Medieval era (12th Century CE or thereabouts). More modern depictions, such as the reindeer, (arguably the elves), etc are from a more recent North American origin - along with the misnomer/corruption "Santa Claus" and the giving of presents to children is also a fairly modern tradition dating only back to the 19th century as I recall.

All of this latter interpretation is still part of the "Commercial Christmas", the modern consumer phenomenon of spending huge amounts of money on gifts. The only connection remaining to any of the old festivals for most anyway, is in the drinking and merriment which was very much part of the Yule at least.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:06 AM   #18
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ////// View Post
what ingredients are used in a xmas pudding?

we at Finland don't make it. IIRC
It's not something I've ever experienced in the US with various friends and families either. Second to that I seem to have picked up, correctly or incorrectly, that "pudding" designates just dessert. Now, dessert is definitely 90% of the meal for most of our family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I hate all "standard" Christmas food. Hate the pudding, the sticky cake and the turkey with trimmings. Maybe in America they know how to cook turkey; here in England it always comes out horribly dry and tasteless. If you want a family roast, a goose is much nicer.

I often buy a pair of quails for Christmas and the New Year but I don't want anything unusual for afters.
They're starting to introduce a lot more duck and other bird types in the stores. Haven't tried them.

Turkey dry vs. not depends on how it was prepared. There's clearly tons of discussion about how to best attain the juiciest turkey for the holidays. We don't have a problem, and so we haven't tried any of the varied recommendations, nor do we spend much time trying to share tips with others because it's just never been any issue worth discussing. We also don't kill ourselves to buy a specific brand, or stress to get one farm fresh from local farms. If I really was fussed, I could try to kill one of the ones which frequents our yard, and I'd assume it would be gamelike in taste. We usually have three or so main courses on the holidays to satisfy various appetites, pasta, ham, vegetarian, plus all the side stuff.

Last edited by rtmistler; 11-21-2019 at 09:08 AM.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:15 AM   #19
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Second to that I seem to have picked up, correctly or incorrectly, that "pudding" designates just dessert.
In the UK a pudding does not always mean a dessert. If you go back far enough, it's usually denoted a savoury item, quite often meat, offal or blood of some sort stuffed into a case of stomach or intestine... and such foods still exist (e.g. black pudding).

I remember reading at some point that Christmas Pudding was prepared and hung in a casing, or a skin of sorts, so that's most likely where the term comes from.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:22 AM   #20
hazel
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The French word boudin means a sausage.

Incidentally mince pies were originally stuffed with minced meat, but strongly flavoured with spices and dried fruits because the animals were slaughtered in November and by Christmas, the meat was going off!
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:24 AM   #21
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ////// View Post
what ingredients are used in a xmas pudding?

we at Finland don't make it. IIRC
It really depends on who you ask. As cynwulf says, Christmas as it is now is really a mishmash of a tonne of different influences, and the answers you get will be relative to the answerer [rather than absolute].

If you listen to Wikipedia, it will tell you that Christmas pudding, which contains a mixture of fruits and spices and fats, has 13 ingredients to represent the disciples and Judas. This sounds to me like a typical Christian 'trick' [and not localised to Christianity either] - since it is that - whereby one takes an older, already existent artifact or festival and gives it a twist relative to the newer religion. This way the newer converts feel like that they are able to 'keep' their older religion but are actually worshipping newer god[s] and becoming unwitting, and sometimes unsuspecting, devotees assimilated into a new religious cause. So the Christmas pudding may have come to represent the disciples in its ingredients but it didn't originally. It was just 'figgy pudding', an older type of pottage with figs, raisins, honey and spices.

More about some of the Yule origins here. Note the correlation between the return of the sun [since after Yule the days get longer] and the return of the Son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post

All of this latter interpretation is still part of the "Commercial Christmas", the modern consumer phenomenon of spending huge amounts of money on gifts. The only connection remaining to any of the old festivals for most anyway, is in the drinking and merriment which was very much part of the Yule at least.
And this is still the best part, as far as I'm concerned. We have a 'no present' rule in our family now - it's too much money and pressure. It should really be about spending time together, eating, drinking and having fun. Every year when I see people panic-buying in Oxford Street mid-December I feel rather sorry for them, since they still feel obliged to succumb to that side of it. A lot of the pubs in London already have trees in them - it's too early for that, as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Our modern Xmas is really a perversion of Yule, not of Christmas. They've stripped away all the old pagan holiness and replaced it by the Almighty Dollar. I often wonder why it's only Christians who are protesting and not witches and people like that. If I was a witch, I wouldn't like it any more than I do as a Christian.
I think the witches just grin and bear it. It's more important that the[ir] old traditions are preserved in situ than time is spent protesting against Christian assimilation.

Last edited by Lysander666; 11-21-2019 at 09:43 AM.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 10:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
It really depends on who you ask. As cynwulf says, Christmas as it is now is really a mishmash of a tonne of different influences, and the answers you get will be relative to the answerer [rather than absolute].

If you listen to Wikipedia, it will tell you that Christmas pudding, which contains a mixture of fruits and spices and fats, has 13 ingredients to represent the disciples and Judas. This sounds to me like a typical Christian 'trick'...
ok, i usually listen to wikipedia

Quote:
In the UK a pudding does not always mean a dessert. If you go back far enough, it's usually denoted a savoury item, quite often meat, offal or blood of some sort stuffed into a case of stomach or intestine... and such foods still exist (e.g. black pudding).

I remember reading at some point that Christmas Pudding was prepared and hung in a casing, or a skin of sorts, so that's most likely where the term comes from.
we here at Finland have "Musta makkara", (its made of blood and some other ingredients) in english it is called "black sausage", it is actually quite good tasting if you dont mind eating animal blood.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 12:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I the sticky cake
What's sticky cake?
 
Old 11-21-2019, 12:41 PM   #24
DavidMcCann
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To me, Christmas pudding is just like a hot version of Christmas cake, and I don't really like either. But I only eat fruit for pudding and I celebrate Heliogenna rather than Christmas.

The references to black pudding brought back a memory. I'd never eaten it, so one day I was tempted to buy a couple of slices in the supermarket. It said I should fry it, so I did. And I looked at the pudding as it sat there and I gradually lost my nerve — so it was eaten by the waste bin.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 12:41 PM   #25
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Traditional Christmas cake is full of fruit and very sweet and sticky. I don't know what it is with the English and sweet cakes. Most of what you buy off cake stalls in this country is much too sweet for my taste.

Last edited by hazel; 11-21-2019 at 12:47 PM.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 03:36 PM   #26
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Have not tried it.

I would prefer it be made with just nuts < no fruits> and served a side of clover honey.

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arc...VAHSTV327Y.jpg

The wife is a good baker and chef. She would make it but she does not like fruitcake type of dough.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 04:07 PM   #27
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I'm a total weirdo and love fruitcake, particularly dark fruitcake with molasses and raisins and currants and lots of brandy. Nobody I have ever cooked for has ever cared for it. When I make it, I do end up eating nearly all of it with hard sauce with more brandy. I do like breaking out the good china and making a "traditional" dinner of some kind but there is very little lingering. I can spend all day cooking and everyone, myself included, is done in 15 minutes. At least my kids and my step kids and most of my family will at least try something different. I remember one Christmas dinner with my ex and his parents where I made venison and spaetzle and Zwiebelkuchen and neither of them ate any of it and instead had frozen hashbrown and cheese casserole.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 05:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis2 View Post
...[Christmas cake/pudding] lasts years if made properly...
I'm sorry, but in my experience that's an oxymoron. We semiregularly have to prepare a second for Christmas because the original gets disappeared via quality control.
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:24 PM   #29
jefro
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Is this Christmas pudding? https://www.purewow.com/recipes/kate...pudding-recipe
 
Old 11-21-2019, 09:55 PM   #30
frankbell
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Quote:
They're starting to introduce a lot more duck and other bird types in the stores. Haven't tried them.
I do like a nice Christmas goose. And goose gravy is the best gravy of all. But, in a household of two, we aren't going to cook a goose or even a turkey any time soon.

Duck is tasty, but store-bought ducks tend to be on the fatty side, as they are farm-raised and get no exercise.

As for cooking your own shoo-fly pie, it is an incredibly easy pie to cook, especially if you use a store-bought frozen pie crust; it's nowhere nearly so complicated as a cherry or lemon meringue pie or a stir-fry, and they aren't particularly complicated. The legend is that the name of the pie comes from this: that when you set the pie on the windowsill to cool, you must stand there to shoo the flies away . . . .

As regards the birth of Jesus (the man, not the icon), my understanding it was most likely in March two or three years B. C. (or BCE if you prefer). I have also read that the placing of the celebration in winter had to do with the growth of Christianity in the Roman Empire and a redirection or absorption of the Roman Saturnalia into the Christianization process.

Christmas trees, though, I think have a German origin.

Last edited by frankbell; 11-21-2019 at 09:57 PM.
 
  


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