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Old 06-25-2016, 03:15 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
That man walking on the streat in the US would feel exactly as I felt at this referendum... But here's the thing.. Your vote affected me because I live in Europe... Yet I understand that it was not my vote to make, it was yours.. Life's just not fair sometimes... But tell me how do people feel when they live in London and the british government overrides a local law? Do you think people loved all the ideas Britain came up with and we're enacted by the EU? But that was the point of the EU, none of the states could have turn on each other...

Now let me ask you, how will Spain feel about paying for about a million brits-expats? They don't have 2 million spanish people living in UK so they won't give a fuck (and you already know how it is to pay healt-care and pensions for "aliens").. But this was the EU... It was not only about bilateral agreement but about a guaranty that every member will not turn their backs on each other ... So someone will pay for you even if you pay for someone else's problems.. You might not always win something in the short term, but it has proven a very good deal in the long run for you...



And who will have to bare those compromises? People that voted "Leave" where already full from the events in the last 10 years.. You're telling me that you'll be able to watch another 10 years that will be worse than the last 10? Because the medical field will need restaffing (which takes time and costs)? How about education? How about looses of jobs and money (which might mean increases in taxes) when giant companies start to relocate (some completely, some partially -- they have to if they don't want to pay customs for export in the EU)? How about price increases on basic food because of imports? Sure, things might get back on track in 10 years or even less, but will you still have the pacience to wait?

And what is the long-term win of this, please? Fewer regulation on safety issues? Increase chances of freedom restrictions depending on what party gets in power... Trust me, Romania was not in the EU until 2007 (weirdly enough, I was kind of against joining because, you know, naivity and some Soros of the time and other bullshit like that) ... I know how it is and what I'm talking about (and we're just starting to get rid of coruption, nepotism and gross incompetence).. Do you think you are prepared for all that? Because, while it won't happen overnight, in the long run, that's how it will be (but you should know that from your history books, it has happened in England)... The EU works because it doesn't grant the power to a federal government over the states like in the USA, while it still has oversears and imposed minimum rules... The cultural diversity and the effective market created by it is like none other in history, so please, tell me .. What do you think will the long-term win be?
I'm sorry but the only argument you make here for staying in the EU is regarding import/export and how companies will structure to accommodate these taxes.
The EU doesn't allow people to live and work in the UK, the UK allows that -- whether the UK is in the EU or not the immigration and working laws can remain as they are if that works.
The EU has never helped the UK be more safe or more free. The UK has developed its own perfectly adequate health and safety framework with no need for the EU. I also didn't notice the EU stepping in when the UK government helped the US with "extraordinary rendition" or, less dramatically, when ISPs were told to keep records of all our internet activity. Europe has done nothing to help the UK in these areas at all.

This being the main issue here. The EU has all these added rules and laws which the UK simply does not need. What the UK needs is the common market and the goal should be to return to that. It appears that there are murmurs about leaving in France also so perhaps the French will be more understanding when it comes to renegotiating trade agreements?
 
Old 06-25-2016, 03:16 PM   #62
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Merkels fault? Merkels fault was that she tried to show decency like a normal human being. But if you govern a people who got shit for brains that is no-go. Maybe she could see to it that dog food be made out of immigrants, than the people would cheer again, and all of Europe too, and she would be re-elected. With that faux-pas of 'inviting' bombed-out Syrians stranded at foreign borders she is being dropped as a hot potatoe by everyone. Thank God I'm no polititian.

The russian relationships are a big problem. Of course after end of the cold war we felt we are the winners and didn't give a shit for Russia. Still Putin and this country gives me the creeps. We missed to get to know each other better. I don't know how this can work out.

I hope the Brexit will make the EU to learn lessons and become more robust. Or at least definitely learn lessons if it breaks apart.

I will always cherish the Brits, they brought us English, Marmite, Weetabix, Mr. Bean and of course drum and bass. I will never forget, even if they move their islands to Pacific.

Last edited by alberich; 06-25-2016 at 03:20 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2016, 03:47 PM   #63
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I read that Cameron is not triggering article 50 of Lissabon treaty before his resignation.

So it looks like there is no immediate Brexit.
 
Old 06-25-2016, 05:35 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
Ok.. So Russia has a say of what other countries choose to do? They can expand their millitary powers, yet NATO members can't? Because Russia gave notice?
The whole purpose of NATO was to counter the Soviet Union, now that the Soviet Union is no more, why is NATO still around? Russia has been raising that point since and rightfully so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
Ukraine and Transnistria are proof that this is not true.. Romanian history is proof that this is not true.. I'm not even going to mention Caucass and Georgia... They take what they like..
There are always going to be tensions, but in case of Georgia that was their own fault - they haven't really been barking much after these few years have they? The issue of Transnistria is complicated, and so is the return of Moldova to Romania. As far as anything else, Romanians in general don't really give a crap about Ukraine; again we pretty much regarded them as Russian. As far as we were concerned Russia was a neighbor.

Ne pissiam pe Ukraina

Last edited by Jeebizz; 06-25-2016 at 05:36 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2016, 06:35 PM   #65
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I have always hated domain name squatters but I could always use some extra cash. So I am trying to think up the domain names for the other countries leaving next to buy the domains.


scemain.{eu,com,info,co.uk}
scoxit.{eu,com,info,co.uk}

sparemain.{eu,com,info,co.uk}
spaxit.{eu,com,info,co.uk}

fremain.{eu,com,info,co.uk}
frexit.{eu,com,info,co.uk}

germain.{eu,com,info,co.uk}
germexit.{eu,com,info,co.uk}
 
Old 06-25-2016, 06:50 PM   #66
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Chances are you would have been ridiculously rich and famous, like the distinguished owners of:
http://brexit.co.uk or
http://brexit.org
... had you not shared this splendid business plan so negligently...
 
Old 06-25-2016, 07:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
I read that Cameron is not triggering article 50 of Lissabon treaty before his resignation.
Cameron has already resigned but is going to remain as PM till the Conservative conference in October. His successor is being given the dubious privilege of triggering article 50.

I'm beginning to wonder of we should blame Simon Cowell for this situation. The X factor and Britain's got Talent have trained the voting public on how to screw the system en mass.

OK, I voted "stay" with most of Scotland... Just something else to cloud the issue.

Play Bonny!

 
Old 06-25-2016, 08:30 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I'm sorry but the only argument you make here for staying in the EU is regarding import/export and how companies will structure to accommodate these taxes.
Then read my post again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
The EU doesn't allow people to live and work in the UK, the UK allows that -- whether the UK is in the EU or not the immigration and working laws can remain as they are if that works.
No, they actually can't... You have to renegotiate with the EU... Sure, you can leave your laws the same, but the EU now has to make a special case for you (and now Spain has no reason to care that you have Polish, Romanians and Bulgarians under your wing).. Or you can negotiate on a country basis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
The EU has never helped the UK be more safe or more free. The UK has developed its own perfectly adequate health and safety framework with no need for the EU.
False, the EU has helped the UK be more safe and more free in any sence, but you are right about the health care system and safety framework (albeit, the EU has minimal standards)... Yet, that's not the point I was trying to make.. You have an amazing number of foreigners working in the health-care system and in the financial system (and in the IT industry).. People that will feel uncertain of the future and can leave at any time, people that will hit birocracy (and a lot of romanians can tell you how disfunctionall your process to hire foreigners really is -- we weren't allowed to work there before 2013 in all sectors -- papers can take months) and people that will simply need to leave ... Those people need to be replaced and that's not going to be easy, quick or cheap...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I also didn't notice the EU stepping in when the UK government helped the US with "extraordinary rendition" or, less dramatically, when ISPs were told to keep records of all our internet activity. Europe has done nothing to help the UK in these areas at all.
That's a law that most countries have, that's why nobody said anything.. But think of it this way.. A few months ago WhatApp was on a short list to be banned from the UK. Now imagine this or something similar would actually happen.. Where are you going to complain? To your government that impossed this rule to begin with? Will you do another referendum? How about other human rights laws?

Remember that the European Court of Justice has now actually banned companies to send any EU-collected data to any outsiders (like the USA) to protect EU citizens against loosing access to it's private data (in the EU, not UK, it's illegal to collect data about any person and not disclose it to him on his request or delete it on his request).. Should we talk about returning policies or about standards of quality? These can be done at the UK level but when they won't, who will you complain to? You see, you might not like that the EU enforces some policies upon you, but it's also the guarantee that the policy will be respected and won't change every 4 years depending on who will be the new MP..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
This being the main issue here. The EU has all these added rules and laws which the UK simply does not need. What the UK needs is the common market and the goal should be to return to that. It appears that there are murmurs about leaving in France also so perhaps the French will be more understanding when it comes to renegotiating trade agreements?
It does actually... Those rules (in favor or not to the UK) are the most stable in the world.. That stability is what makes this common market work...

Anyway, to put things differently.. So do you think you can do 40-years worth of job in two years time? Who will you trust to do that in Britains own interest? What is the expected outcome? What will you do to be able to get into this common maket? How will those things be better than what you have now?

Let's be honest, forget about prooving me or anyone else wrong, but don't you think you traded a sure thing already established for some could's and what if's? I mean, this was probably the most important election of your life, did you actually think of any of my above questions before voting or did you think that "they'll sort it out" without even thinking who "they" will even be!?

Last edited by Smokey_justme; 06-25-2016 at 09:05 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2016, 08:45 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alberich View Post
I read that Cameron is not triggering article 50 of Lissabon treaty before his resignation.

So it looks like there is no immediate Brexit.
Pff.. You can imagine that it's now political suicide to take this endevoure.. No one actually wants this to happen to Britain, while the EU wants it done quickly so that they can have a finger to point and squash any domino effect..
 
Old 06-25-2016, 08:56 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
The whole purpose of NATO was to counter the Soviet Union, now that the Soviet Union is no more, why is NATO still around? Russia has been raising that point since and rightfully so.
So, nations decided to make it a permanent thing. So what? Why should Russia have a say in it? Is someone attacking Russia or what's all this complaining about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
There are always going to be tensions, but in case of Georgia that was their own fault - they haven't really been barking much after these few years have they? The issue of Transnistria is complicated, and so is the return of Moldova to Romania. As far as anything else, Romanians in general don't really give a crap about Ukraine; again we pretty much regarded them as Russian. As far as we were concerned Russia was a neighbor.

Ne pissiam pe Ukraina
Romania doesn't give a fuck about Georgia or Caucaz either, but still there are points to be made in those wars.. Somehow, everyone that ended up with the russian army on their territory is at fault..
And however complicated the talk about Transnistria is, the fact that a Russian police state (where around 2000 russian soldiers are stationed) was formed since '92 in Moldova (land that is historically tied to Romania and where more than 50 % of the population sees itself as a romanian) just a few kilometers away from Romania's border ... well if that's not reason to take precations I don't know what is.. It's weird how Russia sees itself as the threatend one in this ecuation

Also, corect me if I'm wrong but didn't Putin himself said he misses the Soviet Union and would like to redo it?

Last edited by Smokey_justme; 06-25-2016 at 09:00 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2016, 11:14 PM   #71
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NATO was pretty much asleep until Putin and his sick ambitions broke the balance. The same way the balance was broken by Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Now you are blaming NATO for stepping up against growing danger?

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
—Henry L. Mencken


See this thread, how many posters here are equipped with common sense? You still think majority should rule?

Bailing ...
 
Old 06-25-2016, 11:35 PM   #72
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Smokey_justme, you suggest that the UK cannot allow whomever it likes into the country because it is not in the EU any more.
I put it to you that you are falling into the panic. The UK isn't actually populated by xenophobic, racist, short-term thinking, isolationists.
You may have your own reasons for wanting the EU to succeed but the EU did not lead to European solidarity.
 
Old 06-26-2016, 01:15 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
So, nations decided to make it a permanent thing. So what? Why should Russia have a say in it? Is someone attacking Russia or what's all this complaining about?




Romania doesn't give a fuck about Georgia or Caucaz either, but still there are points to be made in those wars.. Somehow, everyone that ended up with the russian army on their territory is at fault..
And however complicated the talk about Transnistria is, the fact that a Russian police state (where around 2000 russian soldiers are stationed) was formed since '92 in Moldova (land that is historically tied to Romania and where more than 50 % of the population sees itself as a romanian) just a few kilometers away from Romania's border ... well if that's not reason to take precations I don't know what is.. It's weird how Russia sees itself as the threatend one in this ecuation

Also, corect me if I'm wrong but didn't Putin himself said he misses the Soviet Union and would like to redo it?
No they don't give two shits about Georgia or Caucaz. The whole thing with NATO is still complicated, since Romania never really was part of the Soviet bloc, hence Russia didn't really say anything when missiles were placed in Romania recently, but the Romanians aren't that stupid and are not going to have a war because NATO. When it comes down to it, Romania is well within her rights to tell NATO to pack up and go, again why should they risk a war on behalf of NATO?

As far as Putin and his nostalgia about the USSR, thats his own personal thoughts, it doesn't affect me at all. And he does raise some good points though, the fall of the USSR was chaotic, and messy and could have been better.


Also remember that incident last year with Turkey? Remind me again NATO's advice to Turkey? They pretty much said they wouldn't have Turkey's back if there was a war with Russia.
 
Old 06-26-2016, 01:23 AM   #74
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As I suspected the sanctions against Russia are pretty much a moot point and it is possible that even the UK will be normalising relations further with Russia, so much for the sanctions

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36629146
 
Old 06-26-2016, 04:40 AM   #75
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For interested UK citizens there's an online petition calling for a re-run of the referendum
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
At present it stands at close on 3 million, and the numbers are rocketing.
 
  


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