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Old 07-10-2016, 06:11 PM   #196
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Écoutez ce belge! Of course they're not taking your nationality away: you don't have one!
.. and how is that a bad thing?
It's why I love my country ;-}

I'll always prefer culture above "nationality" (though it mostly depends on how well or bad our national football team is playing).
 
Old 07-11-2016, 02:34 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Écoutez ce belge! Of course they're not taking your nationality away: you don't have one!

Most people in Europe are not happy with the Brussels bureaucrats and their agenda of "ever closer union". Recent opinion polls show that if they had exit votes tomorrow in Italy and Greece, both would vote to leave. Marine Le Pen has called for a "Frexit". The Czech foreign minister has blamed Juncker for Brexit and called on him to resign. The Hungarian and Polish governments have accused the EU of trying to infringe their sovereignty and one Polish minister compared them to the Nazis.
Talking about a Polish minister comparing EU to Nazis, please do not let this support your argument. While the recently elected Polish government is not entirely pro-EU, the guy who said it is a looney who sees conspiracy theories literally everywhere and is convinced that every country plots against Poland.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 03:41 AM   #198
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meanwhile, Poland demands multiple permanent NATO bases to be built on its territory and filled with foreign troops.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 03:52 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by przemo View Post
meanwhile, Poland demands multiple permanent NATO bases to be built on its territory and filled with foreign troops.
You can see it as double standards. Having said that, NATO is not equal to EU and has a completely different function. One might not want to be a part of EU while being a strong supporter of NATO.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 06:04 AM   #200
przemo
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true but i bet if there will be EU military forces (what is put on hold for this moment) they will be very welcomed on Polish soil just to piss of Russian Tsar.
Meanwhile, Poland and almost all EU depend on Russian gas, what is easy to understand for economic reasons.
UK at least, have their own gas fields, same as Norway - another non EU country.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 07:35 AM   #201
sundialsvcs
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As a foreigner, I do think that the EU, as presently implemented in Brussels, does call for a complete elimination of "national identity" as well as "national sovereignty." And that's precisely why I think that it is failing.

It would be a nightmare if every one of the United States had its own currency, and if you had to have a passport (issued by one of them) to travel to any other one of them, any of whom might not recognize your passport. In this respect, and in establishing common rules for trade, the EU was probably a sensible idea.

But, like most all things glommed onto by politicians who are (of course ...) ever-thirsty for (more) power, the EU "didn't stop there." I have no idea where Brussels intended to stop, if, indeed, ever it did.

The "fifty States" gave up essentially all of their individual identities, very early on. (A handful of states who tried to re-assert theirs, got virtually wiped-out by the others, in "total war.") But, Europe is thousands of years older.

I think that Brussels is now being forced to reconsider, and to sharply reduce, its own role in European politics. If they do not, the Union will splinter within three to five years, and all of you will be back to your own currencies and your own passports.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 08:27 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Yes, there was a very strong element of that. Over the last ten years or so, there has been a growing disconnect between politicians of all major parties and ordinary people. The main reason why people as different as Nigel Farage, Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson* are all so popular is because none of them are perceived as being "machine politicians". [...]

* Americans might like to cross-reference to Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.
This is because the current political establishment in most western countries consists of two major parties - usually as alike as two cheeks of the same arse - almost entirely focused on serving corporate interest, though still attempting to appeal to their respective core electorate. This is especially true of the UK.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 10:07 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by przemo View Post
meanwhile, Poland demands multiple permanent NATO bases to be built on its territory and filled with foreign troops.
So Poland is outright asking for trouble with Russia.... Smart move. If I were a Polish person I would be protesting and calling for the removal of the Prime Minister and who ever else made such a dumbass move.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 07-11-2016 at 10:47 AM.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 10:21 AM   #204
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Quote:
The "fifty States" gave up essentially all of their individual identities, very early on. (A handful of states who tried to re-assert theirs, got virtually wiped-out by the others, in "total war.") But, Europe is thousands of years older.
I don't think you can really compare the United States of America to the EU though some EU politicians seem hell bent on building a "United States of Europe".

Unlike the US where the main language spoken in each state is English (or Spanish), Most European countries have their own language. Each country's culture tends to differ as well though the EU has possibly smoothed the edges as people have crossed internal borders. As you say, Europe is thousands of years older so it'll probably take quite a bit longer than the US to homogenise, and it doesn't look like you guys are there yet either!

Oh! it now looks like things may start happening sooner than we thought (Brexit that is) as they appear to have found a new Prime Minister down the back of the sofa!

Play Bonny!

 
Old 07-11-2016, 11:03 AM   #205
DavidMcCann
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Totally off-topic, but inspired by the last post: the UK is about to get its second female prime minister, and we may (hopefully) get a female leader of the opposition as well. Meanwhile, an opinion poll in the USA shows 40% opposed to a woman as president.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 11:40 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Totally off-topic, but inspired by the last post: the UK is about to get its second female prime minister, and we may (hopefully) get a female leader of the opposition as well. Meanwhile, an opinion poll in the USA shows 40% opposed to a woman as president.
Using the gender argument is just terrible and utterly uncalled for.
Having a tiny number of less sexist voters doesn't justify doing something stupid as "BREXIT".
... and seriously, doesn't it even worry you a little how *all* your politicians are jumping from this national sinking ship?

Last edited by jens; 07-11-2016 at 11:41 AM.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 01:51 PM   #207
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soadyheid View Post
I don't think you can really compare the United States of America to the EU though some EU politicians seem hell bent on building a "United States of Europe".
To my "other side of the Pond" wager, this is exactly what the aforesaid politicians did try to do ... egged-on by "international (sic ...) businessmen" who, in the end, wished nothing more than to reduce their overhead costs.

To my way of thinking, virtually the entire mind-set of "international traders" has been seized by this very-same Dystopia: that "every thirst can best be quenched by 'thoroughly (and, disgustingly ...) Homogenized Milk.'"

They poured trillions of their Currency Units™ into the effort of bribing public officials, all around the world, in the (vain ...) hope that they could "homogenize" every Government on Planet Earth (in one way or another ...), and to "supersede" their respective Judicial Systems by their own self-appointed "Courts of Fellow Businessmen." And, somehow, they self-persuaded themselves of what is now turning out to be "their mutual Folly." That the common plebeians would never know or care. (Or, "if perchance they did care, they could not actually manage to do anything.")

The result, today, has been: "Brexit and Donald Trump."

Like it nor not ... "planned-for or not" ... change is being thrust upon the otherwise carefully bribed planned-for system, and the dominoes are beginning to topple. No one is "thinking past November."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-11-2016 at 01:53 PM.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 02:29 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Besides, now that the UK will be leaving, Schengen will no longer apply to the UK so if other states in the Union follow suit it will give them more control on accepting migrants if any at all, and possibly just out right kicking them out.
For the sake of correctness, the UK never signed up to Schengen. I don't think it ever really made sense to an island without obligatory ID cards (I refer to practical applications rather than the "free movement" aspect, which we had anyhow and I happen in the most part to agree with).
 
Old 07-12-2016, 07:32 AM   #209
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I'm fine with with countries leaving EU. But what I don't like is that a lot of people think it will solve their own contries internal problems. When there's chaos and confusion it is easy to point a finger at the big "brother" EU. The crazy far right populists know this and take advantage of such situations.
 
Old 07-12-2016, 11:53 AM   #210
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sorry i clicked wrong button.
anyway

it used to be other way around, countries were joining EU to solve their internal problems now they leave, that proves things are going wrong within EU.

ps. Britain have new PM Theresa May, pound is going up again :-), economic growth will follow soon.


"new rule barring British citizens from bringing their spouses or children into Britain unless they earned more than £18,600, regardless of how much their non-British spouse earned. Families are currently challenging the law in the supreme court, and pressure groups say it is causing young children to have long-term separation from their families."

what parent will leave his kids just to earn a few shillings more, i wont, and i am a parent.

full article:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ghts-education

Last edited by przemo; 07-12-2016 at 12:04 PM.
 
  


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