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Old 06-30-2016, 11:22 AM   #151
cynwulf
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I live in one of England's "multi-cultural" areas and I'm not seeing the roving bands of UKIP/BNP/EDL/NF thugs or heard of anyone being told to 'go home'. One or two isolated incidents scattered around the country, which if it were not for the current climate, wouldn't make the news anyway, is not a 'sky is falling' scenario. A few idiots can make a lot of noise and in some cases contribute to damaging a nation's reputation - look at football hooligans as an example. But in reality they're a tiny minority and don't represent anyone or anything except their own ignorance and intolerance.

This is the actions of a few braindeads ganging up mainly on 'social media' - and the TV and tabloid news is making a (very) big deal about it, as ever, because it boosts circulation. I've always found social media quite laughable as in most cases it can bring out the cringe-inducing worst in some people. I really don't want to believe that we're in the "age of stupid" but at times it does look that way. The fact that people could sit down and write some of the puerile nonsense we've seen screen grabbed recently, really beggars belief.

At the moment the uncertainty is contributing to the hysteria and scaremongering. We're out and now we need to make it official, activate article 50 and start the process of getting out.

The current incumbent prime minister needs to forget about party politics and petty sniping at the opposition for a second, grow a pair and just "go now" and get a successor in place. The EU are in fact correct to apply the boot and discourage any further dithering.

In my view the people made the wrong decision, but depending on what side of the fence you sit on, elections and referendums go that way for a large proportion of people. Democracy works like that and the result should stand - and any talk about new referendums is just promoting more FUD. We can't just call for a new referendum every time they don't manage to pull off the expected result.

And of course those actually concerned by immigration may be quite disappointed as it's highly likely that the UK will remain in the single market (unless some real kamikaze loon, fully intent on torpedoing the economy, replaces Cameron) and have to accept the terms of the EU regarding free movement/settlement, etc. In short we're probably heading for a "Norway style agreement". This is an issue that many in the Tory leave/Brexit camp will be keen to avoid or dance around for the time being.
 
Old 06-30-2016, 12:35 PM   #152
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Well, yes, it seems I was wrong and some morons have taken it upon themselves to declare that "Brexit" means "abuse a Polish person" though, and not just in my defence, I think morons do that anyhow. But, yes, it seems I was wrong and my fellow UKians are more racist than I envisaged.
 
Old 07-02-2016, 12:15 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
Farage? You're defending one of the most simbolic face to nationalism and rasism and wonder why people are throwing you all in the same bucket... I know the UK is not like that, but Farage, the blonde mop and people like them are... Or are we not talking about the same UKIP that did all this? Or this Farage? Or this is also not Farage? Or how about his EU alliance with right winged Polish party that denies the Holocaust? When exactly will Farage cross that line between racism and "adopting an immigration system akin to Australia's"?
I think you're confusing somebody being scum with their actual, stated, policies. Rather than just suggest I'm defending somebody I am not, or suggesting that that person's policies are something they're not you could actually acknowledge the fact that UKIP, scum as its leadership may be, have always proposed an immigration policy akin to Australia's.

Oddly enough that hypocritical numbskull Obama was opposed the the UK leaving the EU but, for some reason, doesn't see fit to allow people from the EU to live and work in the US without visas. Anybody would think that he finds the country he rules somehow more important than any other despite his failure to do anything about its human rights violations and ridiculous foreign policies.
 
Old 07-02-2016, 01:34 PM   #154
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There are certainly racists in Ukip, but I don't think Farage is one of them. A xenophobe perhaps, but that's not quite the same thing. Racism is based on supposed biological differences, and there are no obvious ones between us and most other Europeans. It's the fact that they're foreigners who speak a different language (and often work for low pay) that Farage doesn't like. I've never heard him say anything bad about Africans or Indians (or Jews for that matter, which is more than you can say of some people in the Labour Party). And "the blond mop" is certainly not a racist or a xenophobe either. There's a lot of disparaging things you can say about Boris Johnson, but socially he is and has always been completely liberal.

Ironically the real racist (though I think an unwilling one) was David Cameron! His constantly proclaimed policy was to cut overall immigration drastically while still being forced to allow free movement from the EU. Do the arithmetic! The only way the figures could add up is if the immigration of people with brown faces from the commonwealth was cut down or stopped, while people with white faces from Europe were still let in. But oddly enough I never heard anyone protesting about that.
 
Old 07-02-2016, 02:44 PM   #155
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Sweet!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...6.html#gallery
 
Old 07-03-2016, 11:12 AM   #156
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What's sweet about a bunch of losers refusing to accept a democratic vote?
 
Old 07-03-2016, 12:26 PM   #157
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I wonder if nationalisitic chauvinists in England will be strong enough that we could see civil war in case Scotland or even Northern Ireland seperate. I don't believe it yet. By the way that would not be the fault of the EU. Absolutely not. Although the urge to find oneself a scapegout will probably be gigantic.
 
Old 07-03-2016, 12:56 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Well, yes, it seems I was wrong and some morons have taken it upon themselves to declare that "Brexit" means "abuse a Polish person" though, and not just in my defence, I think morons do that anyhow. But, yes, it seems I was wrong and my fellow UKians are more racist than I envisaged.
Being intolerant of Polish, or most of the other European, nationals is not racism. That's xenophobia or simply being a d... For 14 years I have lived in England, personally I have not encountered any signs of intolerance towards myself, which does not mean it does not happen to other "Eastern Europeans". What took me completely by surprise was that after media started writing about the recent post-referendum incidents, I received literally tens of messages from my English friends with words of support/encouragement/apologies, etc (some of them voted Leave). It is a very small proportion of Leavers that turned out to be idiots using the results to justify their own prejudices.
 
Old 07-03-2016, 01:06 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
Being intolerant of Polish, or most of the other European, nationals is not racism. That's xenophobia or simply being a d... For 14 years I have lived in England, personally I have not encountered any signs of intolerance towards myself, which does not mean it does not happen to other "Eastern Europeans". What took me completely by surprise was that after media started writing about the recent post-referendum incidents, I received literally tens of messages from my English friends with words of support/encouragement/apologies, etc (some of them voted Leave). It is a very small proportion of Leavers that turned out to be idiots using the results to justify their own prejudices.
Well, yes, xenophobic or just being d...s. The reason I posted such was that there was a very prominent story on Sky News the other day regarding a Polish shopkeeper being told that "We voted for you to go home!", amongst other things, by some morons. Of course, I'm sure there were people doing that before the vote and I'm still not convinced that it's increased because of the vote but it appears it may have which would make my previous post incorrect.

I think the news agencies are just trying to start riots or force the vote to be nullified or something. There also seem to be some people who don't know the difference between Europe the geographical area and home to European people and the EU. Very few people who wanted the UK to leave the EU deny it is in Europe and many of us are proud to be European and have a great deal of respect for our fellow Europeans. The fact that a lot of us don't want the EU as another level of power above our own government doesn't change that. I doubt that the Swiss think that they don't live in Europe or Norway for that matter.
 
Old 07-03-2016, 01:22 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Well, yes, xenophobic or just being d...s. The reason I posted such was that there was a very prominent story on Sky News the other day regarding a Polish shopkeeper being told that "We voted for you to go home!", amongst other things, by some morons. Of course, I'm sure there were people doing that before the vote and I'm still not convinced that it's increased because of the vote but it appears it may have which would make my previous post incorrect.

I think the news agencies are just trying to start riots or force the vote to be nullified or something. There also seem to be some people who don't know the difference between Europe the geographical area and home to European people and the EU. Very few people who wanted the UK to leave the EU deny it is in Europe and many of us are proud to be European and have a great deal of respect for our fellow Europeans. The fact that a lot of us don't want the EU as another level of power above our own government doesn't change that. I doubt that the Swiss think that they don't live in Europe or Norway for that matter.
It really scares me that a tiny minority of Leave voters do not actually know what they voted for. No, you did not vote for Europeans to go home! It was never even suggested. I have also heard some genuine racists remarks on non-EU nationals, which completely does not make sense as a reaction to the referendum.

I agree with you that it is media that unnecessarily stir things.

Personally I think that leaving EU will be a mistake (for economical and socio-political reasons) but neither am I an economist nor am I competent in predicting socio-political consequences.

I like living in the UK and although I am over-reacing right now, I have applied for a British citizenship.
 
Old 07-03-2016, 05:07 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I think you're confusing somebody being scum with their actual, stated, policies. Rather than just suggest I'm defending somebody I am not, or suggesting that that person's policies are something they're not you could actually acknowledge the fact that UKIP, scum as its leadership may be, have always proposed an immigration policy akin to Australia's.

Oddly enough that hypocritical numbskull Obama was opposed the the UK leaving the EU but, for some reason, doesn't see fit to allow people from the EU to live and work in the US without visas. Anybody would think that he finds the country he rules somehow more important than any other despite his failure to do anything about its human rights violations and ridiculous foreign policies.
UKIP doesn't have a policy.. UKIP has racist comments, racist action and racist people in the party.. They never ruled and we're never part of any laws or makings of policies... You can even see them now trying to lie their way out of their actions... How are you not defending them?

And what does Obama have to do with EU? So the guy spoke his mind once or twice about UK.. F*uck him, really.. But I don't get way we're talking about him, now? Was it a vote between Obama and UKIP? Btw, can a US citizen come and live and work in the UK without a VISA?
 
Old 07-03-2016, 05:20 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
UKIP doesn't have a policy.. UKIP has racist comments, racist action and racist people in the party.. They never ruled and we're never part of any laws or makings of policies... You can even see them now trying to lie their way out of their actions... How are you not defending them?

And what does Obama have to do with EU? So the guy spoke his mind once or twice about UK.. F*uck him, really.. But I don't get way we're talking about him, now? Was it a vote between Obama and UKIP? Btw, can a US citizen come and live and work in the UK without a VISA?
I think you should probably look up what the word "defending" means. Nigel Farage has, on a few occasions, stated that UKIP would introduce a points based system as Australia did. That's the most racist policy stated by any of the parties mentioned.
My point being that if even the likes of Farage only wants something the US and Australia have then, perhaps, the UK as a whole isn't racist in this matter?
You can be as upset as you like about my seeming to defend somebody I have absolutely no respect for if you like though, rather than attempting to understand the point I am making.

As for Obama, my reasons for mentioning him were that there is a lot of talk regarding the UK leaving the EU and lots of criticism but most, including the "most powerful man in the world", are being hypocritical or deliberately misunderstanding. The comment wasn't just for your benefit either, you know, there are other people reading this thread and I am entitled to post my observations even if they are not directly in response to you.
 
Old 07-03-2016, 09:44 PM   #163
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Just to stir things up . . . .

http://www.thelocal.es/20160701/spai...n-brexit-spoof
 
Old 07-04-2016, 06:51 AM   #164
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Farage retreats: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468 He has reached his goal and now all is fine Nice guys Farage, Johnson, Cameron. Always good ideas and good leaders.
 
Old 07-04-2016, 12:49 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alberich View Post
Farage retreats: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468 He has reached his goal and now all is fine Nice guys Farage, Johnson, Cameron. Always good ideas and good leaders.
Let's not start talking about war criminal Tony Blair or Theresa-I-want-to-be-führer-May.
Only "Brexit" was evil.......
 
  


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