Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by Sumguy Linux is not selling anything. Linux exists so that those who learn of it and care to use it can have an alternative. It doesn't much matter whether two people use it or two billion.

Exactly this. I personally use Linux because I find it interesting/fun to mess with, not because it's "more popular" or somehow objectively "better" than everything else.

Originally Posted by Sumguy As long as there are people willing to produce and contribute to Linux...it will continue and can be deemed successful. The more the collective Linux producers chase the mainstream audience and seek to cater to them as a whole, the worse Linux will get and the more geeks it will lose...thus rendering itself unsustainable.

ya know, maybe you are correct, i don't speak with any authority in regards to the whole linux scene and no doubt there are experts out there with decades or more of high level involvement

i suppose i can only say the i spent quite a bit of time with puppy actually mostly when I started with linux and after a few years moved on to other stuff, but recently becoming interested again

take my thoughts on the whole scene with that in mind and as mostly a personal experience/take that is prob worth 2c

Originally Posted by jonyo ya know, maybe you are correct, i don't speak with any authority in regards to the whole linux scene and no doubt there are experts out there with decades or more of high level involvement i suppose i can only say the i spent quite a bit of time with puppy actually mostly when I started with linux and after a few years moved on to other stuff, but recently becoming interested again take my thoughts on the whole scene with that in mind and as mostly a personal experience/take that is prob worth 2c

True and well said.

I have used Mandrake and Gentoo but played with other distros as well. I been using Linux for years and can tell you Gentoo is closer to source than most. Gentoo is source based so it has to be. I also used to work on computers back when M$ released 3.1. Yea, the floppy version of windoze. It sucked bad enough I got a new job in a completely different career. Why, as bad as DOS was, 3.1 was only worse. Since I do have friends that use windoze and I am their go to geek, I can say that not much as changed. I haven't messed with 7 yet but do have a few friends with Vista. I have messed with XP more than I care too. I have more experience with M$ than I want too.

Now Linux on the other hand, it has gotten better. Gentoo, as hard as people claim it is to install, is by far the best distro I have ever even read about. I have one install that was installed in about 2003. That install still works. When I built my new rig, which is in my sig, it got Gentoo Linux too. I wouldn't put windoze on my machine if M$ paid me. Believe me, I'm disabled now and could use the money. I still wouldn't. Ramen noodles doesn't taste that bad yet. M$ always leaves a bad taste in my mouth tho.

As you may see, I have experience in both the M$ world and Linux world. Linux wins as if M$ didn't even show up to fight. That's my opinion based on experience. It's worth more than $0.02 too.

Originally Posted by SigTerm OpenSource philosophy + black and white thinking (us vs them). Certain people treat it as if it a religion, which essentually makes them unreasonable and blind/deaf to weak parts of linux. Remove the lunatics, and the decent discussion will be possible. Plus it is not uncommon for a newbie to get "high" for a first month or two when he just discovered iptables but hadn't hit first serious linux-specific problem yet. Linus had a few things to say about black-and-white thinking and "free software extremists", by the way. "Works" - yes. "Works Well" - that doesn't always happen, depends on your task. Same applies to all operating systems.

Now what is eating your goat siggy? just because some people actually CAN get Linux to work well for their purposes ? I find that Linux works quite well for my home and work related jobs no matter what it entails, Perhaps you are unable to get anything aside from windoze to work? BTW you see I am also running a Mac so don't consider me to be totally against proprietary operating systems , I just don't like crapware that is constantly on the verge of collapse as M$ products are!

Originally Posted by MrCode Exactly this. I personally use Linux because I find it interesting/fun to mess with, not because it's "more popular" or somehow objectively "better" than everything else.

Right. We all have our own reasons. For me, it offers a more functional, less problematic user experience than Windows, while offering freedom and power to do what I want.

Originally Posted by jonyo ya know, maybe you are correct, i don't speak with any authority in regards to the whole linux scene and no doubt there are experts out there with decades or more of high level involvement i suppose i can only say the i spent quite a bit of time with puppy actually mostly when I started with linux and after a few years moved on to other stuff, but recently becoming interested again take my thoughts on the whole scene with that in mind and as mostly a personal experience/take that is prob worth 2c

I can't exactly speak with authority either- I've only been using Linux for a year now. All I know is that it works for me (So I'd imagine it'd work for almost anyone, too) and now my computing experience is a lot more pleasant; less stressful; less aggravating; and more efficient than when I used Windows.

I guess I can speak with some authority about the crappiness of Windows...having used it for 10 years.

And not that Linux is perfect and flawless either....but at least in Linux, even when you have to fix something, instead of having to do it in a round-about way, the whole system is open to you, and it's just a matter of figuring out the proper command.....

Had you tried anything else other than Puppy? I'm not personally familiar with Puppy, but I heard that it was a rather limited, stripped-down distro.... Remember, with Windows, it's basically just one OS with a few different "versions" (i.e. home basic, pro, etc.) which are all still basically the same OS, just some have more features and come pre-loaded with more junk...whereas with the various Linux distros, there is quite a large range of functionality and major differences between many of the distros- so it is important to try a few, until you find one that suits your needs and desires. It's a much more personal thing...and that's the beauty of it- you are more apt to find an OS that more perfectly meets your needs and suits your personality.

I highly recommend one of the 'buntus (Ubuntu; Xubuntu; Lubuntu...) if Puppy has been your only Linux experience- as you'll find that they are full-featured and easy and intuitive to install and use. I think you will then get a better idea of what I've been talking about- and if you end up liking that branch of Linux, you can always move up to Debian, as I am intending to do shortly....

Now I can see where you're coming from, though. Puppy is good for what it was intended for....but from what I know of it, it can hardly be compared to a full-featured OS -so comparing that to Windows, is like comparing a bicycle to a Chevy. But when you get into the bigger and better Linux distros, then you have a Mercedes or a Porsche to race against the Chevy!

I'm not personally familiar with Puppy, but I heard that it was a rather limited, stripped-down distro...

IMO Puppy makes a good LiveCD distro, but it's hardly suitable as a permanent installation. The reason? You're root by default (at least last time I used Puppy, you were always the root user). I suppose you could add other users and not be root, but for someone who doesn't know how to do that, being root all the time is not a good thing.

Originally Posted by tiredofbilkyyaforallican I find that Linux works quite well for my home and work related jobs no matter what it entails

I also do everything in linux. My goal was to avoid all MS products and now I'm a happy camper.

To me, MS Windows will ALWAYS and eternally be an amateur OS.

Originally Posted by SigTerm because doing so makes you no different from average fanboy, and fanboys cannot be reasoned with.

Thanks SigTerm for the link, that's a friggin' wonderful site to hang out.

And I don't know why people are behind M$ ass all the times giving baseless stories.
I had to use Windows XP at my workplace for 2+ years, one crash in those 2 years with proper updates, NO BSOD. I was happy because my work was not hampered.
Using Windows 7 since 9 months or so now, again had to use at workplace, no crash so far apart from occasional memory and CPU hogging, I'm still happy coz' my work is not hampered. And mind you this Win7 desktop's up-time is 45+ days now. I'm still waiting for it to show me a BSOD or task bar crash?

Most imp. part, I'm a Linux/Unix Admin, I manage and use Linux and Solaris/AIX at remote DC and at my home.
I love To learn, To work and To enjoy Linux internals. And I'm again happy that my work is not hampered. Linux too breaks, sometimes more often than expected but the I tend to learn to fix that and then carry on.

Good Luck.

Originally Posted by Frank111 To me, MS Windows will ALWAYS and eternally be an amateur OS.

Of course it is....what else can it be when one single OS has to accommodate everyone from 5 year-olds playing games...to Joe Sixpack watching porn, to executives and scientists? This is why, even if MS had better intentions, it would be doomed to producing crappy OS's, just as if Hagar were trying to make one-size-fits-all pants that would fit everyone from Jockeys to sumo wrestlers!

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma And I don't know why people are behind M$ ass all the times giving baseless stories. I had to use Windows XP at my workplace for 2+ years, one crash in those 2 years with proper updates, NO BSOD. I was happy because my work was not hampered. Using Windows 7 since 9 months or so now, again had to use at workplace, no crash so far apart from occasional memory and CPU hogging, I'm still happy coz' my work is not hampered. And mind you this Win7 desktop's up-time is 45+ days now. I'm still waiting for it to show me a BSOD or task bar crash? Most imp. part, I'm a Linux/Unix Admin, I manage and use Linux and Solaris/AIX at remote DC and at my home. I love To learn, To work and To enjoy Linux internals. And I'm again happy that my work is not hampered. Linux too breaks, sometimes more often than expected but the I tend to learn to fix that and then carry on. Good Luck.

Even if that is the case (Gee, ya mean after 20 years, MS is finally getting it's OS to the point where it is somewhat stable?)....how much did your company spend to upgrade hardware/get new hardware that would allow Win7 to work properly, just to accomplish the same things you could do 10 years ago with the then-current hardware and version of Winders? So what has been accomplished, other than your company being made to spend money?

I have no crashes and amazing up-time with Ubuntu on my 4 year-old 1G RAM box...... So you're saying MS finally caught up, as long as you have the latest state-of-the-art equip,emt? I'm not impressed.

Originally Posted by Sumguy how much did your company spend to upgrade hardware/get new hardware that would allow Win7 to work properly, just to accomplish the same things you could do 10 years ago with the then-current hardware and version of Winders? So what has been accomplished, other than your company being made to spend money? I have no crashes and amazing up-time with Ubuntu on my 4 year-old 1G RAM box...... So you're saying MS finally caught up, as long as you have the latest state-of-the-art equip,emt? I'm not impressed.

This is the same hardware on what this company has been using XP since years.
If by hardware upgrading you mean RAM up-gradation, then Yes. Just RAM.

Ubuntu and some derivatives gives a shit to any system less than 512MB RAM, that's BS when compared to XP and equates Win7. I'm not impressed either.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile..._6901744_n.jpg

Originally Posted by MrCode IMO Puppy makes a good LiveCD distro, but it's hardly suitable as a permanent installation. The reason? You're root by default (at least last time I used Puppy, you were always the root user). I suppose you could add other users and not be root, but for someone who doesn't know how to do that, being root all the time is not a good thing.

ooh maan don't get me started.. tried to address that blatant issue, as well as others and ended up getting the boot for my efforts

all i will say is this, i have zero interest in contributing to a pup distro that seems to delight in a rootfest after rootfest at distrowatch

though we haven't discussed it, i suspect puppyite understands the issue

if it is not already addressed, i expect a pup going in a new direction addressing that as a fundamental

it will certainly be on my agenda to resolve when the forums open up

and a first order of business

I'm not personally familiar with Puppy, but I heard that it was a rather limited, stripped-down distro...

puppy is brilliant to start but goes downhill quick from there for many reason, and i wouldn't recommend their forums whatsoever

some folks are taking it in a new direction in an attempt to address blatant long term issues i expect to see positive development, but that remains to be seen

the HUGE pluses are that you can set it up within minutes good to go and not mess with win if you have it, best of both worlds, if you look at it that way capable of booting either or

Originally Posted by Sumguy 4 year-old 1G RAM box......

This is a joke, right?

If Linux system requires 1GB of RAM, then it is really bad, and there is nothing to be proud of. If you had all windows 7 features with lower system requirements (say, system requirements of Windows 98), that would be another story, however if your distribution requires as much RAM/CPU as windows system, or even more (and that's without running AV/software/firewall), then it would be reasonable to conclude that quality of linux is identical or inferior to quality of windows software.

If every iteration of a Linux distribution requires more RAM/better CPU, then how it is different from what Microsoft and other companies are doing?