Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by tiredofbilkyyaforallican so fine go back to steve and the other idiots

I don't think that an idiot can lead a multi-billion dollar company for years.

the constant barrage of viral threats,defragging, registry cleaning etc.

I used Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP and Vista. If you really constantly had to defrag and and clean your registry you should be thinking about what you did wrong, I hadn't to do that constantly. By the way, the whole registry cleaning thing is only to make money out of the uninformed user, you can randomly write 10000 entries to the registry and will have exactly none performance loss. This is also not the fault of the OS, but the fault of the user that decides uninformed and believes anything that companies tell them. The viral thread you speak of can be avoided with a good antivirus program (and there are good free ones) and a little bit of common sense.

To be clear what I want to say: I have no Microsoft software on any of my machines, and I am feeling good with Linux, it is my OS of choice. But don't blame an OS for your lack of information. And insulting people just lets you look like a 14-years old fanboy and does neither your nor the reputation of Linux/FOSS any good.

Originally Posted by SigTerm ...Microsoft IS "any good", so you'll have to deal with it. Aside from operating system of tolerable quality, microsoft has developed at least two really good software products, one of them is a Visual Studio (the only IDE that managed to become better than Delphi), to which there is still no replacement of comparable quality (I checked every available IDE when I've been looking for Linux alternative, so don't get me started on this one).

Hi

So... what do you think about NetBeans and SunStudio... ?

How would you rate them against Visual Studio...?

Just asking here... never used VisualStudio, anyway...

Originally Posted by TobiSGD I don't think that an idiot can lead a multi-billion dollar company for years.

You could be right. He may be worse than a idiot.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD ...I don't think that an idiot can lead a multi-billion dollar company for years.

Hi

ever heard of Dilbert's Principle...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilbert_principle

Incompetents should be kept away from harming a corporation with their work...

So, they get to manage valuable people's work, work is still the driving force of the corporation, not management, and

incopentent management stands no chance against Corporate Culture, this is how big corporations are self sustainable

regardless of less compentent managers...

Originally Posted by Alexvader How would you rate them against Visual Studio...?

My visual studio environment looks like this (code is is for commercial project, so it is censored out).

Main requirements:

• Any window I need can be summoned with a keypress.
• Any window I summon appears instantly and can be dismissed with single "escape" keypress.
• Tool window do not resize text editor area.
• Nothing steals screen space.
• Everything autohides instantly.
• Mouse is not necessary.
• IDE supports proportional fonts and basic syntax highlighting.

All those requirements are critical. Anything that will use Java will be too slow. Anything that requires a mouse is bad. Toolbars are a crime. Curved windows are a crime (rounded corners will eat away 3..5 pixels of screen space). Inability to instantly dismiss window and/or assign shortcut to it is a crime. Any extra margin is a crime. Inability to use proportional (non-monospace) font is a crime.

Most IDEs I saw follow a wrong paradigm - they make it hard to hide any tool window, AND their tool windows (list of project files, for example) share same "level" as the text editor - if you resize tool window, text editor will become smaller. They're trying to copy visual studio 6, not visual studio .NET, which is a bad idea.

So far, I saw only two environments that fit requirements and that were borland delphi and visual studio (the delphi set the standard for me). The closest thing linux has is Kate, but it isn't quite comparable. Anyway, I'm happy with visual studio and have no reason to switch or even search for any alternatives - for my needs this product is almost (95%, especially with a few CLI tools) perfect. So let's not derail this thread into another IDE war.

Originally Posted by Alexvader Just asking here... never used VisualStudio, anyway...

Visual studio express is available for free, so you can use it, if you want.
However, I knew exactly what I want from IDE GUI interface even before I had visual studio (and my GUI requirements are extremely specific and probably unusual), and VS7 (later 2003, 2005 and 2008) just happened to meet the requirements. If you're satisfied with your current tools, then there is no reason to search for anything else - most likely you'll just waste time instead of gaining productivity.

Originally Posted by SigTerm This is FUD.

Elmer?

Originally Posted by SigTerm you'll waste your time and get no performance increase.

I have to agree with that. Windows OS's just degrade over time and become unusable (or so miserably slow as to be unusable) no matter what you do. So why waste one's time doing all the maintenance? Just accept the fact that you'll have to do reinstalls on a regular basis....and that's that.

Originally Posted by Alexvader Hi ever heard of Dilbert's Principle...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilbert_principle Incompetents should be kept away from harming a corporation with their work... So, they get to manage valuable people's work, work is still the driving force of the corporation, not management, and incopentent management stands no chance against Corporate Culture, this is how big corporations are self sustainable regardless of less compentent managers...

I think it is more a case of: The people who are good at making things aren't the people who are good at marketing; and the people who are good at marketing aren't good at making things. So the one who is good at marketing needs the people who make things, so he has a product to sell...and the people who make things need someone who can sell what they make- if what they're making is something that people normally wouldn't pay money for- especially when free alternatives exist. Kinda like the car salesman who can get $3600 for the same hooptie that you or I would have trouble getting $1200 for.

Originally Posted by SigTerm telling other people what to do can be hazardous to your health, plus when you start calling people names, somebody will find it offensive.

I agree.

People shouldn't be called names just because they use a certain OS.

My family uses windows and I respect their choice. And they respect my choice of using linux and freeBSD.

Of course, we do sometimes make fun. But no feelings are hurt.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD I don't think that an idiot can lead a multi-billion dollar company for years. I used Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP and Vista. If you really constantly had to defrag and and clean your registry you should be thinking about what you did wrong, I hadn't to do that constantly. By the way, the whole registry cleaning thing is only to make money out of the uninformed user, you can randomly write 10000 entries to the registry and will have exactly none performance loss. This is also not the fault of the OS, but the fault of the user that decides uninformed and believes anything that companies tell them. The viral thread you speak of can be avoided with a good antivirus program (and there are good free ones) and a little bit of common sense. To be clear what I want to say: I have no Microsoft software on any of my machines, and I am feeling good with Linux, it is my OS of choice. But don't blame an OS for your lack of information. And insulting people just lets you look like a 14-years old fanboy and does neither your nor the reputation of Linux/FOSS any good.

agreed.period.

Of course, calling names to OS's is different. OS's are just products. They have no feelings.

I recently joined this forum and I stumbled into this thread.
First of all, I didn't read it all, so don't flame me if I write something that it's not new.
I first tried Linux in 1998 when I went to a presentation of the OS made by a teen who started his speech saying something that really made him end his life all of a sudden.
He said "Linux is not an operating system for secretaries", as if being a secretary makes you an idiot.
Back then I wanted to try and use something that didn't crash twice before and after lunch as Win98 was fond to do, especially when my boss needed something fast.
Later I discovered that it was a problem with Word spell-checker that was bugged in my language.
The first "dates" with the penguin weren't that thrilling either, because what I wanted to do with it didn't work so I gave up until the arrival of Ubuntu and the help of a very nice ethernet modem that sent me online without having to resort to perform magic.
Unlike other distributions I tried, with Ubuntu I was able to use it and learn its depths in time.
The arrival of Vista, meant that I logged into it just of updates and little else, because it was too slow and unresponsive and Ubuntu was my OS of choice.
Things changed with Windows 7.
I like it a lot and I am keeping in a Virtual machine because my video card is not really "liked" by the penguin.
This way I used the best of both worlds and I am free to experiment, without killing the boot process.

Originally Posted by isileth teen who started his speech saying something that really made him end his life all of a sudden.

What is that supposed to mean?

Originally Posted by isileth I like it a lot and I am keeping in a Virtual machine because my video card is not really "liked" by the penguin.

What model video card do you have?

Originally Posted by MTK358 What is that supposed to mean?

That I had this sudden urge to strangle him.

What model video card do you have?

Nvidia Geforce 210m

Originally Posted by isileth Nvidia Geforce 210m

32-bit: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-d...44-driver.html

64-bit: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-d...53-driver.html

Originally Posted by SigTerm I think that if a company spent 25 years developing an OS, charging for OS is the right thing to do. Also, telling other people what to do can be hazardous to your health, plus when you start calling people names, somebody will find it offensive. This is FUD/lie. There is no constant barrage of viral threats, no constant registry cleaning, and nobody needs defragging on modern hardware - you'll waste your time and get no performance increase. Microsoft IS "any good", so you'll have to deal with it. Aside from operating system of tolerable quality, microsoft has developed at least two really good software products, one of them is a Visual Studio (the only IDE that managed to become better than Delphi), to which there is still no replacement of comparable quality (I checked every available IDE when I've been looking for Linux alternative, so don't get me started on this one).

I'll stick with my statements ! every time I run into a M$ product I have to ask myself what fool would go purchase this POS?

Originally Posted by tiredofbilkyyaforallican @sigterm; It sounds to me that you would much rather use Windoze, so fine go back to steve and the other idiots that feel you should be paying for the privilege of using (correction RENTING) their operating system...There are a lot of people who are very happy to be free of the constant barrage of viral threats,defragging, registry cleaning etc. I have run computers with XP,vistuh,win 7 as well as more than a few Linux based OSs. I'll be damned if I can justify paying M$ the money they demand for such a bug infested POS system. But then that is my opinion take it or leave it but don't tell me M$ is ANY good.

When I read posts like this, I wonder how some people use their computers.
I've been a Windows user since 3.11 and in my "computer-life" I had to face a virus once at home and twice at work (and in these occasions, it wasn't my fault).
I don't pass all my time defragmenting, reinstalling, formatting and fighting viruses.
I just do regular maintainance such as erasing useless files or uninstalling software I don't use anymore and I do this both in Windows and Linux.
In my opinion an OS is a tool for doing things and everybody should use what she/he is more comfortable with.
If someone else chooses something else, it's not a reason for insulting and namecalling.