Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

macOS and iOS surely leverage a shiny bit of history, with a hybrid kernel and a long BSD (-> NeXT) history. NeXT was impressive and it is (rather) sad that Apple took them back - until this day, Window Maker remains one of my favorite free desktops. Microsoft, on the other hand, also invested into not-too-great hardware while they still worked on Unix (Xenix, later bought by SCO, famously known for losing lawsuits). You can't do great language or OS architecture on a PDP-11 because it's barely a computer. It took decades for Unix and BSD (and their descendants and clones) to reach the technical heights of Multics.

Bit of a rant: For as much as Linux has changed, as in gotten more complex over the past 20 years, it still is far more stable and trouble free than than Windows, in my opinion. My current work set up is a Windows 10 Enterprise install, c**ked up with as much security software as the. US Government can install on it. Normally it's just slow as hell, despite being a quad i7 with 16GB of ram. Now I have started intermittently losing the ability to copy and paste both locally and across RDP to other machines, until I reboot, which takes 20 minutes. Every single MS app (Office) will go white screen and "not responding" when clicking on it. MS Outhouse (outlook) is particularly bad and white screens for very single email when trying to read one.

Sure, Windows 10 without Mcrappy Anti-Use software (McAfee) seems to run fine but MS trashware is the "leader" on the desktop, to include enterprises? I never once had this many usability issues with Linux, even my rolling release Kali install in one of my work VMs.

Rant over

McAfee and others have made a fortune selling "anti-virus software" that is both completely useless and deliberately hard to remove. It is often a vector(!) for malicious software because it has privileged access to everything.

Windows users routinely run their machines as "Administrators," and usually do not run continuous backups.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Windows users routinely run their machines as "Administrators,"

... who have increasingly less rights with almost every new Windows upgrade, which is a good thing. I think Vista was the first version that restricted admin access to the system directories.

Originally Posted by YesItsMe ... who have increasingly less rights with almost every new Windows upgrade, which is a good thing. I think Vista was the first version that restricted admin access to the system directories.

Yes, and Linux and MacOS (OS/X) have done the same. The (1970's ... koff koff ...) security models were built on the presumption that access to the equipment was restricted. This is no longer true. It is now necessary to restrict certain things to a special mode in which you can prove access to the equipment.

"Secure boot" initiatives have flowed from these same experience-fed springs – a rogue third-shift computer operator must not be able to "reboot" the equipment from a USB-stick that he carries in his pocket.

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Still, with regards to every system that I maintain, I very strictly observe the "principle of least privilege." There is only one "super-powered user," and you will never be able to guess which one it is. (Hint: its name is not Administrator.") The "accounts that I use every day" are not privileged in any way. When I walk into the workplace, "I am Clark Kent," and you have no idea where I have hidden my ugly blue tights.

I even do that for my Macs: by default, users have sudo rights but I make all my users non admin and add an admin user, also not named "administrator" :-), which forces typing out the admin username and password when elevated privs are requested.

The xubuntu 22.04 distribution I just tried, when first installed, came with just about every program and tool needed to access and use the internet. Further, there are additions available that can make it have just about the look and feel of Windows from long ago, when Windows wasn't the big bloated slow buggy mess that it is now, and when Microsoft wasn't the totally oppressive thing that it is now. Microsoft's current "business model" of "put all of your data up on 'the cloud,' and manage and control it through an internet connection doesn't not work for me at all.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD So I make first: As I had Windows installed, at least it had run my games. Tinkering with wine can be so grueling.

Yes. I bought Minecraft and discovered that I suck at it as well as most games. I come from an era when we had black and white go cart games in pool halls. That was fun!
I really liked Windows 2000 as I was able to easily dual boot Windows and Suse Linux. Today I do have one Windows 11 Gaming laptop, a Lenovo Legion.
I mostly run Linux and a bit of BSD.

That post you quoted was from 2010 and they haven't logged in here in 4 years. Their last post was in 2017. Doesn't look like they're coming back.

I haven't used wine in years - I can only remember getting a result with it once, rest of the time no luck at all and having to run specific versions to get specific things to work was always irritating to me. Luckily I've had no real need for it.

Excuse the slightly OT, breaking my abstinence, it's General being my excuse...

Any ideas how I can get myself to use my many various Linux laptops,
Instead of my convenient little Android smartphone?

Probably Wikipedia New_Thought instead of a Psych_shrink

While you're at it, how can I get myself to stop wasting my life with TV, and go study Linux (&of course without posting dumb questions on LQ)?

Originally Posted by !!! Any ideas how I can get myself to use my many various Linux laptops, Instead of my convenient little Android smartphone? ...how can I get myself to stop wasting my life with TV, and go study Linux?

Easy, simply invoke the power of the human mind. Just decide that you actually want to do those things. Once the decision has been made, almost like magic, it will happen.

As a dear friend and recovered alcoholic once told me, there are two states of mind you must pass through to end harmful behavior.

The first is when you admit to yourself that it is harmful but continue in it anyway. In this state you only want to want to end it, but you still want to continue as you are.

The second is when you decide you actually want to end it and you no longer want to continue as you are. Once the decision has been made it is as good as done, which is not to say it does not take discipline and effort, but the difficult part is behind you.

Your question indicates you are in the first state with regard to your digital device addictions.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by _blackhole_ That post you quoted was from 2010 and they haven't logged in here in 4 years. Their last post was in 2017. Doesn't look like they're coming back.

Thanks for the information. I trust I have not broken any LQ rules.

Originally Posted by _blackhole_ I haven't used wine in years - I can only remember getting a result with it once, rest of the time no luck at all and having to run specific versions to get specific things to work was always irritating to me. Luckily I've had no real need for it.

I have attempted to use Wine a few times. I find it easier to have one unit dedicated for Windows.

If you use Wine, you actually want to use Windows. Choose the original.

Originally Posted by YesItsMe If you use Wine, you actually want to use Windows. Choose the original.

Except you can rip core components out of wine, and nobody would care.
While the original windows don't even let you rip out personalized ads these days.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs "Secure boot" initiatives have flowed from these same experience-fed springs – a rogue third-shift computer operator must not be able to "reboot" the equipment from a USB-stick that he carries in his pocket.

You should stop spreading misinformation. That is the industry narrative and nothing more.

Secure boot is all about locking out alternative operating systems, or at least making their installation cumbersome - it may have not fully realised that objective yet, but it's certainly the end goal. Android or ChromeOS based devices and anything from Apple have all pretty much achieved this already - Microsoft are working on doing the same, but have had to tread carefully. The Windows release "phases" (10 and 11 are really just 8), will achieve this eventually, by mandating certain "security" features, to forcibly obsolete old hardware - which will eventually be the only refuge of Linux desktop users. Secureboot was developed by a consortium of Microsoft plus desktop OEMs and hardware manufacturers - it has nothing to do with "evil maid" attacks by malicious actors in data centers. You can always boot another secure boot signed OS to do something malicious - and that's before we consider all the bugs and security holes in UEFI, secureboot and x86.

Microsoft's objective's in that area should be very clear and obvious by now:

1) Cloud - Linux based server "solutions" running on MS Azure.
2) PC - Linux based client solutions running via WSL2, etc

In other words - no Linux (or anything else which is not approved "Big Tech" product, without a built in surveillance/telemetry suite) running on "bare metal" - all helped along and facilitated by it's allies in "Big Tech", plus the Linux Foundation, Red Hat and Canonical et al, who are all either bankrolled or partnered with Big Tech.

In the future, as with the current attitudes to encryption, running an uncertified OS will be painted as a potentially criminal activity - i.e. the actions of someone who wishes to bypass "safety" and "security" features (phoning home, etc, running only signed applications from approved vendors, surveillance).

When the EU or any court/government in the world tries to claim that user choice is limited - MS and it's cartel will pull out WSL/2 or whatever comes later (google already have crostini), demonstrate Linux running, and claim that users do in fact have the choice to run Linux and that secure boot is a necessity for safety and security. For governments and courts, it's highly like that this response "will do" and that will be the end of the matter.

Right now, we are on the slippery slope.