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Old 04-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #3076
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
His symphonies were wonderful, too!
The composer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton%...o%C5%99%C3%A1k

The keyboard inventor, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Dvorak
 
Old 04-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #3077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YesItsMe View Post
Because they want to cater Windows users. Why would anyone want to use a wannabe Windows though?
Sorry for the late reply - kept forgetting about this thread.

I don't know why anyone would want to to be a "wannabe Windows user" - I use Linux because I want something different. Otherwise I would just use Windows itself instead.

Anyhow, found an interesting article. But in fairness, I remember using the command-line on MS-DOS before I even knew what Linux (or UNIX) even was. So it wasn't "scary" to me personally. But I do agree with the article's comments about Snappy and Flatpak - no thanks to the both of them for me...

Happy reading
 
Old 04-21-2019, 09:06 AM   #3078
rokytnji
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When in another country. One looks for familiar things to be comfy.
Makes sense then familiarity in a Linux distro would not be a bad thing .

Now back to , " Get off my lawn "
 
Old 04-21-2019, 09:27 AM   #3079
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For me, coming from the mainframe world, Linux was a homecoming. Bash was different from the DCL shell that I was used to, but it was easy to learn as it had all the same facilities: variables, loops, branches, etc.

By contrast, I remember my first experience of Windows being a culture shock. I couldn't control the mouse or remember what all the icons were for. And I resented having to learn what looked like a set of Egyptian hieroglyphs just to be able to tell a computer what to do.

I wasn't greatly impressed with DOS either. The DOS command language was incredibly primitive compared with a mainframe shell. There were no variables except command line parameters and no flow of control statements except a pause for the user to abort the script if desired.

Not my dream of the future, definitely.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 09:40 AM   #3080
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I've used quite a few early MS and IBM DOS.

I came from the Windows and DOS world, my first home PC was an old 286 based elonex, running either Windows 1 or 2 with one of those old amber mono screens. Next was an IBM 486 DX2 machine running Windows 3.1, which I could never take to and used to exit to DOS to get most things done (could waffle on forever, but won't...).

I still use Windows at work every day, I still write batch scripts and recently bits of vbs and powershell scripting as well. But I've zero interest in it - horrible mess. I've looked into doing really simple scripting stuff with ps or via traditional cmd and the hoops you have to jump through are shocking to say the least. Confusing and bloated vbs snippets tend to be the replacement for *nix tools we take for granted such as sed and grep.

I see all of the glaring problems and annoyances with Windows on a daily basis - horrible design decisions, bugs that just persist for years and are never fixed, UAC, the registry, virtual store and more...

Windows 10 in particular is an awful mess. You have the Windows 8 "start screen" rendered as an absolutely useless "start menu" (in fact, even the start screen was better). There are old style configuration dialogues which launch the new style bastardised configuation screens, or vice versa, or you're forced to use the new style screens regardless or go into the registry to configure things which were previously configurable via the GUI. The new style GUI looks like a lot of hideous powerpoint slides which someone knocked up in 20 minutes. You find yourself using <Windows key> + 'r' most of the time just run commands to get work done - for example "control printers" to get into the real "devices and printers" to avoid the bastardised mess of a "printers" available from the "start menu"... you have to work around a horrible halfway house of a broken tablet GUI - for an OS which is supposed to be a production workstation OS for desktop/laptop PCs. It's a half finished mess of old UI, new UI, old dialogues, springing up unexpectedly (but usually that's desirable) and having to find workarounds to the new broken, half finished crap...

In a departure from Vista/7, the GUI of 8/8.1/10 looks like someone just drew some great big coloured blocks and convinced their bosses it's some kind of new and innovative thing... so as a large corporation you develop display compositing which utilises the PCs 3D hardware acceleration and then two releases later you hand over the desktop GUI design stuff seemingly to a collection of idiots playing with powerpoint...

At least Windows had a robust and usable file manager? Not anymore, the idiots have been very busy there as well... if you ever made use of the "detailed list" view in any version of Windows, with 7 the idiots decided that the "up one level" button is not needed in a file manager and that web browser style back/forward buttons are somehow useful. Reluctantly they gave us back this button in 8. But of course you still get "the ribbon", you still have horribly broken drag and drop in this view, etc. But in 10, instead of opening up an explorer window and expecting to get to the root filesystem, you are presented with the "libraries" - virtual "folder" crap and have to make an extra click or two to actually navigate the filesystem tree... all horribly bloated and slow.

I think YesItsMe is correct, in that there are Linux distributions which are designed to attract Windows users - and in attracting said users they strive for "ease of use" and perhaps some familiarity. I've always found this a little problematic as it seems contradictory. Who can forget the notable example of Ubuntu and "bug #1"?

macOS for example, has defined it's own "user experience" it has not aped Windows. But one could argue that gnome for example has gone down the root of providing a "mac like" experience. I once read that the developers were inspired by the mac GUI and that they had tried to emulate it in some cases, but they certainly wouldn't be alone in that.

The reality is that desktops for *nix systems certainly do not want to be emulating or modelling anything on the mess I've described above.

Last edited by cynwulf; 04-23-2019 at 09:42 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 09:53 AM   #3081
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Couldn't have said it better myself cynwulf. I have to use windows 10 at work every day as well and it constantly gives me fits: focus stealing, bad UI designs everywhere. Forced reboots or unannounced reboots after updates, updates not chained together but spread throughout the day. The office suite is the worst: outlook is the "premier" business email client app yet it is a bug ridden pile of junk. Routinely eats emails and says "there was a problem". Doesn't respect or even acknowledge smart card cache timeouts, yet the middleware libs are part of the OS this steaming heap rides on.

Funny to me that when I bad mouth windows, people say "everyone on the planet uses it". They don't use it because it's good, they use it because microsoft flooded the market and people don't know anything else. If they had a taste of the open source offerings out there, they would change tune. Of course therein lies the rub: WHICH open source offering - If there is one curse and blessing associated with open source it's choice. Sometimes too many choices, which can also drive people away.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:00 AM   #3082
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Plus one to Cynwulf. I came across Windows "libraries" about a year ago when a friend asked me to find the collection of photographs that had somehow gone missing on his laptop. I thought that would be an easy job, even for someone who hadn't used Windows for years. I mean, a directory tree is a directory tree in any OS, no? No! I soon discovered that none of the folders on this machine really existed. They were tied in by symbolic links to bits and pieces of real folders whose names and relationships were never displayed. And on my friend's machine one of the links was broken, so there was no way of finding out where the photos actually were.

Fortunately he had a backup of the collection and a relative recovered them for him from that.

I always thought the rationale of Windows was that you put up with a system that was impossible to understand because at least it was easy to use. And Linux was the opposite: it wasn't that easy to use, but once you had learned how, you had a system that was very easy to understand and maintain. But nowadays, Windows has stopped being easy to use and Linux has stopped being easy to understand.

Last edited by hazel; 04-23-2019 at 10:02 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:06 AM   #3083
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Well said Hazel - I too have the same problem with the "libraries": where are they? pictures, documents, etc, all hidden from the user when they can just be a simple directory.

It's as if the UI designers at Microsoft all work separately and then just throw their ideas into a development bucket that gets churned out without any sort of overarching view. The UI elements are cobbled together and don't make any sense.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:16 AM   #3084
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So in other words, Windows UI "libraries" (not DLL libraries) are just glorified UI's ?

I've seen the same on other people's PC's with Windows (I think it was Windows 10), and it just looks like yet more useless bloat/eye candy to me. I think it's suppose to somehow "replace" a proper file manager (or similar) - I'd prefer a real file manager personally, so I can see, you know, the real files and folders, yes? It just goes to show how much people are being dumbed-down, or should I say... welcome to the modern world!
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:21 AM   #3085
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Right - they call them "libraries" but they are directories symlinked from under the user's profile directory. When opening the file manager (and I use that term loosely), they are presented in the left pane as top level directories, yet they don't actually exist there. I think the real issue is windows 10 (or any version really) only separates end user data in subdirectories under the user's profile, which is normally hidden from the user. Of course Microsoft had to make it as complex as possible instead of just making "/home/user" like Linux and BSD do.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:41 AM   #3086
jsbjsb001
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I see. It certainly does sound like a heap of pointless bloated crap to me. No wonder you need a faster computer, and more, and more memory with each new release of Windows.

It's probably why M$ does it, because then they can make even more $$$ on having to re-train people on the "new features" of Windows. They should call it "bloat training", because that's essentially what it is, more training to understand the "new bloat" added.

Glad I don't support Windows machines myself...
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:46 AM   #3087
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It's confusing complexity all in the name of "ease of use". No doubt in Windows marketing speak "all of your files are right where you need them" or some such twaddle.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:54 AM   #3088
sevendogsbsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
It's confusing complexity all in the name of "ease of use". No doubt in Windows marketing speak "all of your files are right where you need them" or some such twaddle.
Right - just don't think about it. They want you not to think, just like Apple. At least Apple's implementation is easy to understand, because it is just directories off the user's /home. Of course Apple is based on some sort of Unix or BSD and not a kludged together heap of crap that has been drug from 1990 into the present.
 
Old 04-23-2019, 10:58 AM   #3089
jsbjsb001
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Then when something goes wrong, PAY a M$ authorised repair place to fix it... well they got that tied up in a neat little bow, haven't they?
 
Old 04-23-2019, 11:01 AM   #3090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
It's confusing complexity all in the name of "ease of use". No doubt in Windows marketing speak "all of your files are right where you need them" or some such twaddle.
Until the links break!
 
  


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