Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by L4Z3R Linux is hip, cool, secure and today.

You misspelt Windows.

Originally Posted by YesItsMe You misspelt Windows.

Linux is so hip, cool and secure that microsoft is copying features in linux eg. linux shell, a package manager/store, multiple desktops and etc to lure linux users and developers away from gnu/linux.

Microsoft wants to be like linux.

Another liar claiming that Microsoft was copying the Linux shell, despite me having proven the opposite in this thread. You bore me.

Edit: Linux copied package managers, multiple desktops, its shell "etc." from UNIX. You know who had a UNIX in the 80s? Microsoft.

Go on, praise your copycat OS.

God this thread content reminds me of Invader Zim. I need to re-watch it again.

jsbjsb001, regarding "market share"...

me (incidentally not in response to you): "I don't think market shares should ever come into any technical argument"

you: "M$ doesn't have most of the desktop market because of market share, but instead because yes, they were very clever with making agreements early on, when the PC industry was still evolving."

me: "they have the largest desktop market share by far [...] what deals they have with OEMs and what tactics they have used are irrelevant. They have the vast majority of the desktop market share."

you: "I wasn't saying that M$ doesn't have the most market share in the desktop market"

This exchange confuses me. I have stated that they have the biggest desktop market share, you are saying they don't. You're also stating that they don't dominate the desktop market because of market share? You also refer to deals which were brokered in the 80's and 90's.

I'm just saying that they have the biggest market share of the desktop/laptop market and that's it. I'm not discussing or debating about how they got there. They may have got there through doing business, just like any other business - i.e. snuffing out the competition, aquisitions, etc. This is probably no different to whoever supplies your car, energy, clothing, consumer electronics, food, etc...

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 Also remember any insults I may have made towards any Windows users have been in response to YesItsMe's posts.

You have now transitioned from categorically stating that you did not insult Windows users, to stating that you did in fact insult Windows users, because YesItsMe was insulting Linux users. Which is it?

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 I'm not sure what you "not disagreeing" with YesItsMe's viewpoints has to do with anything? Unless you're saying that if others (like myself) don't agree then you and YesItsMe are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

I'm not implying anything, just posting to the thread as you are.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 But of course I'm still the bad guy !?

Is this based on an assumption on your part that people, i.e. myself, are "taking sides"?

Much of what you quoted directly after my "to get back on topic" was not directed at you, but at the thread in general. So many of your "where have I stated otherwise" comments are misplaced.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 So I guess there was no reason why developers at the Linux Foundation decided to stay up god only knows how long and write the Meltdown and Spectre patches ?

The Linux Foundation don't write the code.

You're also selecting one incident of a few well published "celebrity" security flaws. This is a totally different thing to that which was being discussed - security features.

As Intel and AMD people write commits to the Linux kernel, they would have been involved in the mitigations (in fact it was a comment from an AMD engineer, on LKML, which caused the exploits to be leaked early). Linux Kernel developers, MS, etc were tipped off earlier about Meltdown/Spectre than say FreeBSD or OpenBSD - because there are commercial interests/entanglements.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 The fact is that he doesn't just "dismiss security flaws out of hand"

And now you need to go back and read again. I made no such claim that Torvalds dismisses security flaws out of hand, which you've placed in double quotes.

Originally Posted by cynwulf jsbjsb001, regarding "market share"... me (incidentally not in response to you): "I don't think market shares should ever come into any technical argument"

Never said or thought it was in response to me, once again, I was only adding to what you said.

you: "M$ doesn't have most of the desktop market because of market share, but instead because yes, they were very clever with making agreements early on, when the PC industry was still evolving." me: "they have the largest desktop market share by far [...] what deals they have with OEMs and what tactics they have used are irrelevant. They have the vast majority of the desktop market share." you: "I wasn't saying that M$ doesn't have the most market share in the desktop market" This exchange confuses me. I have stated that they have the biggest desktop market share, you are saying they don't. You're also stating that they don't dominate the desktop market because of market share? You also refer to deals which were brokered in the 80's and 90's.

But that's the problem with what you're saying (in bold), I did NOT say that! So I don't understand why your saying that I did... So believe me, you're far from the only one who is confused here.

I'm just saying that they have the biggest market share of the desktop/laptop market and that's it. I'm not discussing or debating about how they got there. They may have got there through doing business, just like any other business - i.e. snuffing out the competition, aquisitions, etc. This is probably no different to whoever supplies your car, energy, clothing, consumer electronics, food, etc...

Yes, and I was AGREEING with you cynwulf! And the rest of what you said there is pretty much what I said before...

You have now transitioned from categorically stating that you did not insult Windows users, to stating that you did in fact insult Windows users, because YesItsMe was insulting Linux users. Which is it?

No I have not "transitioned" from anything. So, this is my last ditch attempt to explain it; and as I have said, in was in response to insults directed at Linux users, as in: if you (YesItsMe) want to keep calling Linux users names, lets see how YOU like being called names. As in: while I could have done a better job in the way is was written, they where aimed at YesItsMe and no other Windows users. Yes, if you're saying that it didn't appear that way, then fine, maybe you have a point there. So, to be clear: my insults where directed at YesItsMe, not anyone else.

It still doesn't excuse misrepresenting the facts on your part. And I'm talking about your criticism of insults made. I would have thought you would at least put all of the facts on the table - but clearly I was wrong in my thinking of you.

...Is this based on an assumption on your part that people, i.e. myself, are "taking sides"?

If you are, I'm not sure which one it is - I was wondering.

Much of what you quoted directly after my "to get back on topic" was not directed at you, but at the thread in general. So many of your "where have I stated otherwise" comments are misplaced.

I'm not saying the "to get back on topic" was just directed at me. So relax. In relation to the "misplaced" comments, I was asking you, that is all.

...You're also selecting one incident of a few well published "celebrity" security flaws. This is a totally different thing to that which was being discussed - security features.

Well, actually we were discussing a number of security related issues. Secondly, you're putting across the idea that security either isn't important or doesn't matter at all as far as Linux kernel developers are concerned. That's just plain wrong. I'm also entitled to take a different view to you too.

As Intel and AMD people write commits to the Linux kernel, they would have been involved in the mitigations (in fact it was a comment from an AMD engineer, on LKML, which caused the exploits to be leaked early). Linux Kernel developers, MS, etc were tipped off earlier about Meltdown/Spectre than say FreeBSD or OpenBSD - because there are commercial interests/entanglements.

Yes, developers who are working for/at the Linux Foundation, under agreement between Intel/AMD and the Linux Foundation.

And now you need to go back and read again. I made no such claim that Torvalds dismisses security flaws out of hand, which you've placed in double quotes.

Are you sure "you made no such claim that Torvalds dismisses security flaws" cynwulf? It's not how I read it. I didn't mean to imply you did say that "Torvalds dismisses security flaws out of hand" by using the double quotes and for that I'm sorry - I'll try and use single quotes next time, to avoid the confusion.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 my insults where directed at YesItsMe

Thank you.

That's everything anyone needs to know about your personality.

And the ladle calls the pot shallow...

what matters: food, shelter, freedom?

https://youtu.be/NzLUFG9FIQY

Security.
https://youtu.be/OXS8ljif9b8?t=2m5s

Originally Posted by YesItsMe Another liar claiming that Microsoft was copying the Linux shell, despite me having proven the opposite in this thread. You bore me. Edit: Linux copied package managers, multiple desktops, its shell "etc." from UNIX. You know who had a UNIX in the 80s? Microsoft. Go on, praise your copycat OS.

Regardless, the FACT remains that microsost has chosen to use a linux kernel for their azure product over a NT kernel or a Unix kernel.

Having been a major Unix company long before most Linux users even had a computer. Now what?

I'm not (always) an idiot (but human in "2018") so wouldn't say Linux is always secure but Windows is far less secure because my grandma runs it. You think she's going to do updates and install security if I don't for her?

Did anyone here besides me use LiteStep?

It sort of blew my mind at the time.

Originally Posted by YesItsMe Having been a major Unix company long before most Linux users even had a computer. Now what?

You are dwelling too much on the past.

The fact is, linux is what's trending TODAY in this modern computer age of mobile, SBC's ( Small board Computers) and the cloud.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e And the ladle calls the pot shallow... what matters: food, shelter, freedom? https://youtu.be/NzLUFG9FIQY

I think their pot is empty somehow... but well said!