Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by jamison20000e I'm going to try xp in Vbox for HULU but mostly to see if it will work for you littlejoe5 and will post back tonight or tomorrow not to mention how fun it will be DELETING it (>‿◠)✌

Well, thanks. jamison20000e. I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by littlejoe5 Guess what! Windows will not install. Or if it does, it lack serious adjustability (such as not being able to use Wifi). But mostly, it just will not install. It goes through the motions until it gets to its first "boot into windows" screen, and then the screen goes blue, with white letters saying that it ran into "serioous problems, and can't continue" so it stopped "to avoid damage to your hardware", and then there is the word "Stop" followed by a long string of numbers and letters.

these mite help:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post3069199

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...8/#post3455059

Originally Posted by littlejoe5 Guess what! Windows will not install. Or if it does, it lack serious adjustability (such as not being able to use Wifi). But mostly, it just will not install. It goes through the motions until it gets to its first "boot into windows" screen, and then the screen goes blue, with white letters saying that it ran into "serioous problems, and can't continue" so it stopped "to avoid damage to your hardware", and then there is the word "Stop" followed by a long string of numbers and letters.

This sounds like you want to install Windows XP on a computer that has AHCI enabled in the BIOS. This will not work, you either have to use a custom install CD with AHCI drivers or you will have to disable AHCI. A better option would be to use a newer version than XP, its successors will have no problem with AHCI and XP will have no support after 2013-04-08 anyways.

For those of you who use windows, can't imagine why, there is an article from howtogeek.com stating windows 8.1 is going to encypt hard drives by default

So choice doesn't matter to winblow$ i.e. if you don't want to encrypt? Assume the position sheep! "Device encryption means that a thief can’t just pick up your laptop, insert a Linux live CD or Windows installer disc, and boot the alternate operating system to view your files without knowing your Windows password. It means that no one can just pull the hard drive from your device, connect the hard drive to another computer, and view the files."

Originally Posted by UberX For those of you who use windows, can't imagine why, there is an article from howtogeek.com stating windows 8.1 is going to encypt hard drives by default

Not sure what you're getting at. If you want Windows 8.1, encryption will be enabled by default. If you want 8.1 but don't want encryption, you can disable it. If you're upgrading to 8.1, you'll have to enable it (it's disabled by default). If you log in via a local user account, it won't be enabled (it's disabled by default). The article states that encryption is being enabled for security reasons...that's a good thing, right? If the user doesn't think so, then they can opt out of the encryption...it's that simple. 8.1 isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. If you think so, maybe you need to better clarify your concern a bit more, because, based on what you posted, it either went over my head or there's no real concern as it relates to people that prefer Windows.

Not sure why you say, "can't imagine why," either, because there are various reasons why people use Windows. Just because you're against it doesn't mean people are making mistakes or are not smart about their choice. It totally depends on your outlook and what you want out of an OS. Most non-techies want simplicity, and most of those people who're using Windows still don't think Ubuntu is simple enough. Some of them think that there's no need to change if Windows is working fine for their needs. Me? I use both, and I consider myself a Linux power user (I've run headless systems (via commandline, not Webmin) for close to 11 years). My employer forces me to use it, although we've Linux servers as well. I use it at home, mainly for *modern* FPS combat games and combat flight simulators (Arma 3, BF 3, DCS: Blackshark, DCS: A-10C...I'm not talking about Tux or Frozen Bubble). This is something that Linux doesn't do, mainly because no one is coding for those genres of games for Linux. No, there's no substitute for this. These types of games don't play well in virtual environments and you can't use them in Wine. Fix this gaming deficiency in Linux and I'll stop using Windows at home...that's all that's keeping me from being fully dedicated to Linux, but to be honest, it cuts deeper than that. If Linux gaming support gets better, there's still the issue of how complicated the update process is for game updates/upgrades/patching...that'll have to be simplified as well, because I don't want to be spending 3+ hours trying to apply game code updates in Linux.

Originally Posted by unixfool This is something that Linux doesn't do, mainly because no one is coding for those genres of games for Linux.

Come on the powers that be want to pull the wool over your eye$!

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Come on the powers that be want to pull the wool over your eye$!

Uh...no. I'm not some guy who will fall for such a comment. I've been using computers for a VERY long time. I've been using Linux for quite awhile as well. I'm not someone who needs to be saved or convinced to use Linux. I *use* Linux, in ways that you probably haven't seen. But, like I said, until, the gaming deficiencies are addressed, I'll continue to use Windows for my gaming.

Originally Posted by unixfool Not sure what you're getting at. If you want Windows 8.1, encryption will be enabled by default. If you want 8.1 but don't want encryption, you can disable it. If you're upgrading to 8.1, you'll have to enable it (it's disabled by default). If you log in via a local user account, it won't be enabled (it's disabled by default). The article states that encryption is being enabled for security reasons...that's a good thing, right? If the user doesn't think so, then they can opt out of the encryption...it's that simple. 8.1 isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. If you think so, maybe you need to better clarify your concern a bit more, because, based on what you posted, it either went over my head or there's no real concern as it relates to people that prefer Windows.

The problem here is not with the people that install Windows themselves, but with those machines that come with Windows pre-installed. Ever tried to shrink an encrypted Windows partition from within a Linux installer? This is another one of the "Hey, Linux can't even install on my machine, see how crappy it is!" actions of Microsoft. They see Linux gaining attraction, especially with the announcement of SteamOS, which tries to dig at one of Microsoft's main pillars, PC gamers, and now they try to do anything to make it as hard as possible to actually install Linux. Typical Microsoft strategy.

Do we have cars and homes that run on clean power(health care and education for all)? No, corporate agenda*!*(cynically ironic I know but that's capitalism\free-trade\ego until revolution or an end )

Originally Posted by TobiSGD The problem here is not with the people that install Windows themselves, but with those machines that come with Windows pre-installed. Ever tried to shrink an encrypted Windows partition from within a Linux installer? This is another one of the "Hey, Linux can't even install on my machine, see how crappy it is!" actions of Microsoft. They see Linux gaining attraction, especially with the announcement of SteamOS, which tries to dig at one of Microsoft's main pillars, PC gamers, and now they try to do anything to make it as hard as possible to actually install Linux. Typical Microsoft strategy.

Thanks for talking the time to elaborate. I can see why this went over my head. The first thing I usually do when I get a new machine that has Windows pre-installed is to reinstall (that usually gets rid of the bloatware and gives me the chance to set things up the way *I* want). I also never dual-boot. I either dedicate the whole system to Linux or leave it alone. There's also the option of virtual installs or live CDs. I tend to use all of those options instead of dual-installing Windows and Linux.

Now, I've never messed with encrypting partitions in Windows, but I'm assuming that if encryption is enabled, it can be disabled, which would then allow partitions to be shrunk/grown. Is there anything complicating or preventing disabling encryption on a pre-installed Windows?

Regarding Steam, I use it but not for Linux gaming. I've seen their Linux game titles...their selection definitely isn't something to be envious of. I'm pretty sure that Steam's Linux facet isn't as popular as you're stating, simply because the game titles are $hit.

Originally Posted by unixfool Thanks for talking the time to elaborate. I can see why this went over my head. The first thing I usually do when I get a new machine that has Windows pre-installed is to reinstall (that usually gets rid of the bloatware and gives me the chance to set things up the way *I* want). I also never dual-boot. I either dedicate the whole system to Linux or leave it alone. There's also the option of virtual installs or live CDs. I tend to use all of those options instead of dual-installing Windows and Linux. envious of. I'm pretty sure that Steam's Linux facet isn't as popular as you're stating, simply because the game titles are $hit.

Neither Live-media nor virtualization is at this point a viable way for gamers.

Now, I've never messed with encrypting partitions in Windows, but I'm assuming that if encryption is enabled, it can be disabled, which would then allow partitions to be shrunk/grown. Is there anything complicating or preventing disabling encryption on a pre-installed Windows?

Disk encryption is nothing you can switch on and off at will. If a partition is encrypted it will keep to be encrypted, you would have to reformat to make an unencrypted partition of it (and the same for encrypting it again).

Regarding Steam, I use it but not for Linux gaming. I've seen their Linux game titles...their selection definitely isn't something to be envious of. I'm pretty sure that Steam's Linux facet isn't as popular as you're stating, simply because the game titles are $hit.

The games are coming, and with the latest announcements of SteamOS (Valve) and Battlefield 4 for Linux (EA) first major players in the gaming industry are jumping on board. Yes, at the moment there are not that many games on Steam, and many of those that are are developments of indie studios (which does not mean at all that those games are crap), but this will change pretty soon. The day Bethesda announces The Elder Scrolls VI for Linux I can ditch my Windows partition.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e So choice doesn't matter to winblow$ i.e. if you don't want to encrypt? Assume the position sheep! "Device encryption means that a thief can’t just pick up your laptop, insert a Linux live CD or Windows installer disc, and boot the alternate operating system to view your files without knowing your Windows password. It means that no one can just pull the hard drive from your device, connect the hard drive to another computer, and view the files."

Well I know one organization that should encrypt their hard drives, The US government. Government employees who store sensitive information are always misplacing their laptops.

True but Linux does this cheaper with more options (tax credit) ... beside the point a thief can steal an 8.1 laptop wipe the drive and run Linux so GPS\WiFi the MAC\hardware.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD Neither Live-media nor virtualization is at this point a viable way for gamers.

I wasn't specifically referring to live media or virtualization for gaming (read my first post - I specifically state that that's not the answer for most gamers...you've repeated what I already said), but it is certainly an option for some people (non-gamers, people who just need free software or a linux and/or linux server environment).

Originally Posted by TobiSGD Disk encryption is nothing you can switch on and off at will. If a partition is encrypted it will keep to be encrypted, you would have to reformat to make an unencrypted partition of it (and the same for encrypting it again).

You sure about that? Under "How to Disable Device Encryption" within that article, it tells how to disable encryption:

If you’d like to enable a different encryption solution or just disable encryption entirely, you can control this yourself. To do so, open the PC settings app — swipe in from the right edge of the screen or press Windows Key + C, click the Settings icon, and select Change PC settings. Navigate to PC and devices -> PC info. At the bottom of the PC info pane, you’ll see a Device Encryption section. Select Turn Off if you want to disable device encryption, or select Turn On if you want to enable it — users upgrading from Windows 8 will have to enable it manually in this way.

Just follow those instructions to disable disk encryption, then resize any partitions for Linux...seems simple enough.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD The games are coming, and with the latest announcements of SteamOS (Valve) and Battlefield 4 for Linux (EA) first major players in the gaming industry are jumping on board. Yes, at the moment there are not that many games on Steam, and many of those that are are developments of indie studios (which does not mean at all that those games are crap), but this will change pretty soon. The day Bethesda announces The Elder Scrolls VI for Linux I can ditch my Windows partition.

I'll believe this only when I see it...not really believing announcements. I've lost count of how many times things were promised in the gaming world that never made it beyond the vapor state. And yeah, while I do not consider indie studios to be crap, I do consider the majority of them to not be in most serious gamers' mind when defining gaming. I can't think of many indie linux gaming projects that are on the same level as the games I mentioned earlier.