Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Again, guys...this is the beauty of Linux.

You can Ubuntu/Kubuntu with KDE and Compiz and be a resource hog.
You can have it with Gnome and use less.
You can have it with Fluxbox and similar and use way less.

Point is, we have options.

If we want eye-candy (I don't) or gimmicks...or lightning fast performance or decent performance on an old computer, we can choose, even while using just one distro.

Windows? You have one DE, and can turn off some of the eye-candy if your machine isn't state-of-the-art...which MIGHT keep it from freezing or crashing IF you're not too hard on it.

Yes, some of the distros are becoming bloated- likely in an attempt to appeal to what they think Windows users want. (That is why I wanted to get away from Windows...I certainly don't want to see my Linux distro going that way- for this reason, I am not interested in upgrading Ubuntu from 10.04 and will be switching to Debian)

Originally Posted by dalek I wasn't talking about windoze. I was talking about a Linux desktop. Don't put words in my mouth that are not there.

i don't see where i referred windows there and i meant linux

The only reason windoze is where it is is because of the advertising, the fact that it comes on a computer with no user choice and a lack of education that alternatives exist. It's certainly not because it is better.

i'd call that a dim view of win users that comes to roost, it is certainly better for them

Originally Posted by Sumguy Point is, we have options.

Point is, that you also have an option of running another operating system, so "having options" is not a linux feature.

Originally Posted by Sumguy Windows? You have one DE, and can turn off some of the eye-candy if your machine isn't state-of-the-art...

Wrong again. Explorer is just another program. You can disable it or run something else instead of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deskspace.PNG
http://tokyodownstairs.blogspot.com/...eskhedron.html
Besides, there are/were people porting KDE/Gnome to Windows, so...

Originally Posted by jonyo then it certainly matters how many use it whether for sale of by free offer

Why? The fact that it exists and is being maintained is all one needs. It is here for those why want the alternative. I found it...I was able to completely abandon Winders...I'm a happy camper. I've turned others onto it who were disgusted with Winders.

The faqct that many do not know that Windows is the source of many or all of their problems/frustrations or that they do not know of Linux's existence, does not affect Linux or Linux users...it just affects the people who don't know about it, in that they are not aware of the alternative which is available to them.

The fact that there are many people throughout the world who use Linux successfully and are happy with it, means it is successful.

On the other hand, MS may have the lions share of the market and be making a huge profit....but just like IBM, that will not always be. Even many of the people who use MS products, hate MS, and hate the crappy performance and many problems inherent in their products.

In this case, I would define success not in terms of numbers of users or money being made...but rather by how well the product works; how it allows the user to accomplish what he wants; cost to the user; ability to work with a broad range of equipment- not just new and state-of-the-art; and how happy it makes the people who use it.

In my opinion, Linux is wildly successful.

We could argue all day...but the fact is, I was miserable for many years with Windows- I did some research and saw that Mac would not suit me either.....then in a last-ditch effort, I gave Linux a try....and VIOLA![sic]- now my life is a lot less stressful. I don't have to fume at my computer. Things work well. Life is good.

Those with whom I have shared Linux feel the same way- although I am rather discreet with whom I share it...as some just have no interest in learning how to use their computer....and many whom I know would not come on a forum for assistance nor RTM when needed, and I'd end up being their tech support....and that also is an added benefit of abandoning Windows...I used to play tech sup[port to all my friends and neighbors, as I was the guy who "Knew a little about computers" [they were right...I know LITTLE!]...but now, I've forgotten half of what I knew about Windows, and have never even laid eyes on Win7, so I am no longer qualified to assist them....YIPPEEE!!!!

And here's a funny observation: Of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances and relatives:

Those who use Windows: Always have a problem- always ask for help (except for one neighbor who is an MS certified tech...now he's the guy they go to)

Those who use Macs: Rarely complain, except about money. They're either content or just figure it's pointless discussing such things with non-Mac users.

Those who use Linux: Are overjoyed that there is an alternative to Windows and Macs....and rarely if ever have problems or complain.

The techies I've encountered: Most hate Linux...because they know that if everyone switched to Linux, their repair business would evaporate overnight- as Windows causes the majority of computer problems. (Except for one honest guy- who touts Linux and even offered to let me come down to his shop where he has some Linux boxes, to try out some distros)- Many of the above use Linux themselves.

Originally Posted by jonyo i'd call that a dim view of win users that comes to roost, it is certainly better for them

It's not that it is better. It's that a HUGE number of them don't know there is alternative to windoze except for a Mac. My brother had never heard of Linux until I started using it. When he asked me what anti-virus I was running, I said none. He was speechless. Same with some of my neighbors. As I have said MANY MANY times to you before, most people think Linux is a program. They don't even know what a OS is. It's sad to have to say that in this so called "educated" world but that is what I run into. That is my experience and it happens over and over again. You can't argue with my experience.

Now, back to my brother. When I build him a new rig, he wants to go with Linux. Why? Because he knows from me that it is better. He has been educated and knows the difference between a program and a OS. As he said it, 'why should I pay a couple hundred dollars to put up with the same crap I have put with since I bought a computer with windoze'. He has never had any hardware problems, it is always windoze that screws up. Add in that he doesn't have to pay for a anti-virus or put up with running a free one, he is really happy.

So, you post a lot but you have not changed my experience or the experience of others one bit.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Point is, that you also have an option of running another operating system, so "having options" is not a linux feature. Wrong again. Explorer is just another program. You can disable it or run something else instead of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileeskspace.PNG Besides, there are/were people porting KDE/Gnome to Windows, so...

I CLEARLY meant that we have OPTIONS IN Linux- i.e. the ability to configure the OS as our tastes/resources dictate.

So some can hack Windows to be more like Linux? What does THAT prove?

Originally Posted by Sumguy So some can hack Windows to be more like Linux?

And exactly why do you think it is a "hack"?

Originally Posted by dalek It's not that it is better. It's that a HUGE number of them don't know there is alternative to windoze except for a Mac. My brother had never heard of Linux until I started using it. When he asked me what anti-virus I was running, I said none. He was speechless. Same with some of my neighbors. As I have said MANY MANY times to you before, most people think Linux is a program. They don't even know what a OS is. It's sad to have to say that in this so called "educated" world but that is what I run into. That is my experience and it happens over and over again. You can't argue with my experience. Now, back to my brother. When I build him a new rig, he wants to go with Linux. Why? Because he knows from me that it is better. He has been educated and knows the difference between a program and a OS. As he said it, 'why should I pay a couple hundred dollars to put up with the same crap I have put with since I bought a computer with windoze'. He has never had any hardware problems, it is always windoze that screws up. Add in that he doesn't have to pay for a anti-virus or put up with running a free one, he is really happy. So, you post a lot but you have not changed my experience or the experience of others one bit.

Well-said! And that has been my experience, exactly, too- as well as thousands of others.

If it weren't for the fact that we are living during a very dark age (We have again reverted to using torture to elicit confessions; the average person doesn't even know the most basic facts of history; People elect the worst possible crooks to rule over them....) I'm sure that MS would have been swept under the carpet decades ago, and Linux would be king and many more people would be happier and less stressed.

Originally Posted by SigTerm And exactly why do you think it is a "hack"?

Because MS doesn't want you using anything that they or their "affiliates" don't make money off of...and the developers of FOSS probably did not intend/do not approve of their products being used in such a way....and doing so likely violates the terms of the GPL or EULA or both.

Originally Posted by Sumguy Because MS doesn't want you using anything that they or their "affiliates" don't make money off of...

Why do you think so? Are you Microsoft employee? Have they secretly told you about their plans or something?
And why do you think that such products don't benefit Microsoft?

Originally Posted by Sumguy and the developers of FOSS probably did not intend/do not approve of their products being used in such a way....

Windows KDE initiative is hosted on windows.kde.org. Part of kde domain. GPL license allows modification of program code.

Originally Posted by Sumguy and doing so likely violates the terms of the GPL or EULA or both.

The key part is "probably". Can you say which parts of GPL/EULA are broken? Do they even exist? I.e. you don't really know, invent childish arguments and tell fairy tales. I.e. you aren't familiar with licenses, aren't familiar with programming, and yet you make a lot of assumptions, and tell invalid information. All "in the name of linux" or something.

It is a shame, really. Few months ago you were able to come up with more interesting arguments that were actually based on something, and now you're in full "fanboy mode" - embarked on a "holy" quest to prove entire world that windows is "bad". This is really unfortunate.

what about this war with win? probably all big talk

Originally Posted by dalek It's not that it is better. It's that a HUGE number of them don't know there is alternative to windoze except for a Mac. My brother had never heard of Linux until I started using it. When he asked me what anti-virus I was running, I said none. He was speechless. Same with some of my neighbors. As I have said MANY MANY times to you before, most people think Linux is a program. They don't even know what a OS is. It's sad to have to say that in this so called "educated" world but that is what I run into. That is my experience and it happens over and over again. You can't argue with my experience.

your experience speaks volumes

folks don't know about linux? who cares, too bad, you folks might as well be talking about alien themes and big stories

Originally Posted by jonyo your experience speaks volumes folks don't know about linux? who cares, too bad, you folks might as well be talking about alien themes and big stories

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Google it. Most people fall into the ignorance category. That's what I and others are trying to tell you. I've about made up my mind which one you fall into tho.

Originally Posted by dalek There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Google it. Most people fall into the ignorance category. That's what I and others are trying to tell you. I've about made up my mind which one you fall into tho.

thanks for the deep insight, i guess that's a fine example of what one can expect in asking about linux, in a desire to know more and understand it all, what a turn on

no wait, i get it, how can we turn folks off

hmmm lemme see, gentoo? ok, no interest there for me

ahh ..the beauty of options, next..

Originally Posted by jonyo thanks for the deep insight, i guess that's a fine example of what one can expect in asking about linux, in a desire to know more and understand it all, what a turn on no wait, i get it, how can we turn folks off hmmm lemme see gentoo? ok, no interest there for me ahh ..the beauty of options, next..

Your welcome. Pleasure to help.

I don't get the impression you are here to learn anything at all. Just drive your own point even when others with much more experience tell you otherwise. Again, look at the definition and see which category you fall into.