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Old 08-18-2018, 11:44 AM   #16
DavidMcCann
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What's the difference between a court ordering a bank or accountant to hand over information and it ordering as ISP to do so? This thread looks like the inevitable gaggle of conspiracy theorists who presumably gather on the web when people stop listening to them in the pub. Time to sneak out…
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #17
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
The proposed legislation may well be rejected by the senate (although both major parties are in favour of this sort of oversite). My concerns are that if it is passed, then firstly mission creep will extend it to cover individuals and secondly the requirement for a warrant will be removed ("because we're dealing with terrorists/paedophiles/people who don't like my football team").
While it wouldn't surprise me either if they try to extend it, I can't see how they'd get that through easily. Then again, "national security" is probably one of the only areas they seem to be able to agree on (for the most part anyway).

Although, how can we trust the snakes (the major parties that is) anyway...
 
Old 08-18-2018, 05:16 PM   #18
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
What's the difference between a court ordering a bank or accountant to hand over information and it ordering as ISP to do so? This thread looks like the inevitable gaggle of conspiracy theorists who presumably gather on the web when people stop listening to them in the pub. Time to sneak out…
How are those cameras covering every square inch of London coming along? On this side of the pond we view freedom, when the Government fears/respects the citizens and Tyranny when citizens fear the Government. Of course, I have to keep in mind that in the UK you are not a citizen but a subject, and that is a clear distinction of terms.

The difference in your scenario is one: modern smart phones contain alot more information/data then a simple bank account. So the real question is: would you permit or find acceptable a blanket warrant that allowed the Government to search everything you owned, every house, bank account, social media account, friends house, neighbors, phone book etc.... Because that is the type of data most people have in their phones.

Warrants are supposed to be narrow and specific with limited scope and measure. For instance, if they have a warrant to search your home, it has to state what they are looking for ie: evidence of cocaine manufacturing. If in the search of your home they find something "suspicious" that is not part of the warrant they can't do anything about it (without securing a follow-up warrant, which is usually denied). Knowing your rights is important, again in the US we are considered innocent until proven guilty, other countries you are assumed guilty and must prove your innocence.
 
Old 08-18-2018, 08:27 PM   #19
frankbell
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Warrants are supposed to be narrow and specific with limited scope and measure.
I have long been inclined to think that warrants against ISPs and cell carriers are often little more than fishing expeditions when authorities either cannot or, more likely, cannot be bothered to gather evidence to narrow their searches to particular individuals or organizations. "There must be something there, so let's go look for it," is not evidence.

I suspect that bills such as the one in Australia are also influenced to some extent by legislators' and the general public's ignorance about how this digital stuff works.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 04:51 AM   #20
jsbjsb001
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Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
...
I suspect that bills such as the one in Australia are also influenced to some extent by legislators' and the general public's ignorance about how this digital stuff works.
I think you've got your finger smack bang on the pulse there, absolutely! The politicians here are absolute dinosaurs when it comes to understanding how stuff in the digital world works. They just don't have a clue. Very well said!

I'm sure if you put a Linux distro in front of them, they'd be absolutely lost and would probably not even know how to start an app, let alone do anything else with it!

Well said again!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 08-19-2018 at 04:54 AM. Reason: typo and an addition
 
Old 08-19-2018, 11:12 AM   #21
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I think you've got your finger smack bang on the pulse there, absolutely! The politicians here are absolute dinosaurs when it comes to understanding how stuff in the digital world works. They just don't have a clue. Very well said!

I'm sure if you put a Linux distro in front of them, they'd be absolutely lost and would probably not even know how to start an app, let alone do anything else with it!
A good example is Theresa May, when she was still home secretary, trying to put a back door into encryption that only the government could use. That seems to have died the death, so I suppose someone managed to explain to her that encryption can't be both secure and insecure at the same time; the laws of arithmetic don't allow it.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #22
jsbjsb001
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I'm surprised she can handle Twitter account in that case if she doesn't understand that.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 03:24 PM   #23
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I'm surprised she can handle Twitter account in that case if she doesn't understand that.
Probably an assistant/social media manager.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 05:51 PM   #24
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
A good example is Theresa May... so I suppose someone managed to explain to her that encryption can't be both secure and insecure at the same time; the laws of arithmetic don't allow it.
We need to borrow whoever did the explaining.
 
Old 08-19-2018, 10:29 PM   #25
jsbjsb001
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Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Probably an assistant/social media manager.
I probably wasn't clear in my reply - I meant "she" as in "Theresa May" and also there should have been an "a" there, so that should have read: "a Twitter account". Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
We need to borrow whoever did the explaining.
Theresa May should up their pay for explaining that to her (Theresa May). But yes, we could do them here too.

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 08-19-2018 at 10:32 PM. Reason: an addition to make post more clear.
 
Old 08-20-2018, 01:47 AM   #26
ondoho
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Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
We need to borrow whoever did the explaining.
omg, populism at its worst:
Quote:
The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia
i can only agree:
Quote:
Where will it end? Only a few months ago New Scientist called for politicians to gain a greater understanding of technology.
 
Old 09-12-2018, 04:38 AM   #27
Luridis
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Disable autologins. Don't setup email on your phone. Delete all messages once read. Buy a "dumb" phone...

When the establishment is intrusive, we all en masse need to render their tactics useless.
 
  


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