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Old 01-05-2017, 08:05 AM   #61
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goumba View Post
IMHO many of these "terrorist threats" are fabricated just to keep the people fearful, and therefore "in line".
I basically agree with you on that. It's not quite "Duck And Cover," but it's damned close. If no one believes that Russia is about to "drop the bomb," then anyone else will do: India, Pakistan, any four-letter acronym that sounds sufficiently threatening.

"The War on Terror™" has been a lucrative enterprise for the Military Industrial Complex for yet-another fifteen years, although it has accomplished absolutely nothing and it never will. (Clue 'ya, Mister Cheney: your company is never gonna get that pipeline built.) Thousands of young people have come back in flag-draped coffins that never made the public news. As far as the American public is concerned, nothing is happening out there. But you can plainly look at our economy and see anemia.
 
Old 01-05-2017, 01:54 PM   #62
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I remember in the fourth grade the Boston Public Schools instituted the periodic " Air Raid Drill " where all of the students were ordered to get under our desks!! I got sent to the principals office for laughing at the whole thing!! I told my teacher that if an atom bomb goes off the entire building would collapse/disappear and everyone would be dead; hiding was useless!! Eventually I had to comply with the directive like everyone else!!

Mankind has always developed better weapons for warfare and when hydrogen bombs are made small and mobile they will be bought and used!! Tons of narcotics are smuggled into the U.S.A. every month so how hard can it be to smuggle in weapons of mass destruction!!

Has there ever been a whole year since humanities existence when there has not been some type of war going on??
 
Old 01-05-2017, 08:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinlucky View Post
Tons of narcotics are smuggled into the U.S.A. every month so how hard can it be to smuggle in weapons of mass destruction!!
Well, "war has always been embedded in the heart of man," and so has the abuse of various physically-addictive substances. However, I am note quite yet ready to extrapolate this to "the importation of a Hydrogen Bomb, just so that you can sit back and watch it explode." (And, just because this would be a Worst-Case Scenario.™)

Quite frankly, if "the Internet" has done anything for the prospect of "World Peace," I would like to think that it has done so by bringing our nations closer together, and by reinforcing to us all that we in fact share a tremendous common interest.

And that ... well ... "Dwight was Right," after all. (And, as a "Five, count 'em Five-star [only George Washington can get Six, and by-the-way he's dead ...]" General Of The Army™, he damn well should have been. Too bad nobody listened.)

As for me, I'm not "ducking and covering" under my desk ... although I actually was asked to do that in third grade. And, I do not seriously choose to lose sleep over the prospect of desert bedouins finding a way to smuggle a hydrogen bomb into Washington, DC or New York City. Even though I am apparently quite-endlessly invited to do so.

"When in trouble ... When in doubt ... Run in circles! ... Scream and shout!!"

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-05-2017 at 08:25 PM.
 
Old 01-06-2017, 01:48 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
And, I do not seriously choose to lose sleep over the prospect of desert bedouins finding a way to smuggle a hydrogen bomb into Washington, DC or New York City. Even though I am apparently quite-endlessly invited to do so.
It might not be necessary to do anything like that. Just put a few atomic bombs (not H-bombs, ordinary uranium bombs will do) onto rockets, fire them up into the stratosphere over America and let them detonate there. It could be done from a fishing boat. Result: an electromagnetic pulse that fries the power grid and knocks out all electronics. Over the following months, millions would die, but with no permanent damage to the infrastructure.
 
Old 01-06-2017, 06:53 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
It might not be necessary to do anything like that. Just put a few atomic bombs (not H-bombs, ordinary uranium bombs will do) onto rockets, fire them up into the stratosphere over America and let them detonate there. It could be done from a fishing boat. Result: an electromagnetic pulse that fries the power grid and knocks out all electronics. Over the following months, millions would die, but with no permanent damage to the infrastructure.
I don't think that science-fiction scenarios need to dictate international policy.

Leave us not forget, also, that "what goes up, must come down." Those "ordinary" uranium bombs would fill Earth's atmosphere with uranium and that would fall all over the planet. The last time we detonated a nuclear bomb up there, we were rewarded with a new and artificial Van Allen belt ... as well as worldwide health and crop effects that, in the "nuke happy" 1950's and 1960's, somehow just never managed to make the evening news.

The only way to "avoid World War III" ... if it were to be a conventional war ... is to be determined not to have one.

But you should know that World War III won't be a conventional war, and all of our armies and weapons will be quite useless against it. The battlefield of World War III will be: "the Internet of Things."

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984:
I know what you look like. I know what you sound like. I have listening devices in your house – you call it "Siri," for example. Your daughter places her phone by the bed, so I know which room of your house is hers. You all take your phones with you, so I've mapped out your daily habits in the smallest detail, as well as those of your neighbors. All of your neighbors. "Knowledge Is Power," and since my knowledge of every one of you is perfect, so is my power over you.

You have willingly allowed my soldiers to infiltrate your country. Simply because we promised to supply cheaper labor. You paid no attention to them, really, because you regarded them as "less than you" and were happy so to do. You send them home after two years with all the information they can carry, on tiny semiconductor chips sewn into their clothes and baggage, and you bring in more. You easily could have foreseen it, and you easily could have stopped it. But you simply didn't. "Pride Goeth Before the Fall," and, "There Are None So Blind As Those Who Refuse To See."

When the attacks began, they happened 'anywhere and everywhere,' and no one knew who might be next. The terror was complete and unstoppable. We also had perfect knowledge of the soldiers, the police officers, and their families, and to remote-control and wreck even their automobiles. They shut down the Internet of course, if only for a very little while, but our knowledge sources were distributed and off-line. They had created and perfected and deployed the instruments of their own destruction, and they found that they could not turn them off.
There's your next "World War."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-06-2017 at 06:55 AM.
 
Old 01-06-2017, 09:54 AM   #66
sundialsvcs
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P.S.: I would simply point out that the above is my speculation based on ordinary stringing-together of a possible scenario. We have created a vulnerability for our society (world-wide) the likes of which has never before existed. It only stands to reason that one day someone ... someone whose heart is as black as midnight ... will exploit it.

I name a particular group of people as possible culprits because these are people who are just a few hours' airline flight from the places where the USA has been engaged in an undeclared (conventional) war for more than fifteen years now. It is therefore plausible to think that such people might have a motive to strike back. But, they are certainly not the only ones.

It is most logical to me that "World War III" will not be "conventional." We have nearly-perfected conventional weapons systems and scenarios. A cruise-missile launched from a thousand miles away would make very short work of that. But, if you simply "think outside the box," knowing that your enemy is refusing to do the same thing, it's quite easy to come up with scenarios such as the speculation I described.

"9/11" should have taught the world a lesson about what "war" has now become. That attack was "an act of war" without warships and without troops. It was an attack that was predicated (I firmly believe) on a complete lapse of building security and it was performed right under people's noses, probably for many weeks. (The airliners were simply a distraction, and a coup de grace.) Furthermore, the culprits similarly destroyed the very building in which New York's "counter-terrorism response" was to be staged. It was surely only because someone at the time did put two-and-two together that the final stanza of this attack did not take place as its designers intended. The truth is now veiled in top secrecy – as it should be, given the nature of what truly happened here – but un-classified speculation about it is still utterly terrifying.

Someone – with a heart of darkness – simply looked at that situation "differently," and saw a vulnerability that nobody else saw, and was psychopathic enough to do it. (And, they had plenty of help.)

Those psychopaths still exist out there. So do their helpers.

"The Internet of Things" is, quite foolishly, "world-wide," and we are still saying nothing, and legislating nothing, about its obvious vulnerabilities. We are so enamored of "the Internet" that we refuse to see it as a weapon of war, except in the scenarios against which we imagine that "we are, surely, comfortably made invincible against" by those mysterious agencies with three-letter names. But it takes nothing more than imagination to come up with endless scenarios like my previous speculation. Unprotected, unclassified, "marketing information," and a willingness among members of the general public to throw all thoughts of security to the four winds. Really, the only thing you need now is Hadoop ... to do hideously awful things. And someone out there is gonna do it someday ... literally, just because they can. Just because we let them.

And, especially in our business, "that should give us dreadful pause."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-06-2017 at 10:00 AM.
 
Old 01-06-2017, 02:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
But you should know that World War III won't be a conventional war, and all of our armies and weapons will be quite useless against it. The battlefield of World War III will be: "the Internet of Things."
I believe the Internet of Things is just one of the many aspects of the new form of warfare, (or fourth-generation warfare). Other key element is media, and especially, media manipulation used to make people believe whatever those in power want them to believe. As a well-known international analyst from my country says: "Fourth-generation warfare is real and is happening right now in our neurons."

A list of elements of fourth-generation warfare (from Wikipedia):

Quote:
  • Are complex and long term
  • Terrorism (tactic)
  • A non-national or transnational base – highly decentralized
  • A direct attack on the enemy's culture, including genocidal acts against civilians.
  • Highly sophisticated psychological warfare, especially through media manipulation and lawfare
  • All available pressures are used – political, economic, social and military
  • Occurs in low intensity conflict, involving actors from all networks
  • Non-combatants are tactical dilemmas
  • Lack of hierarchy
  • Small in size, spread out network of communication and financial support
  • Use of insurgency and guerrilla tactics
By the way, I don't completely agree with the Wikipedia article since it gives the idea that 4GW is only done by non-state forces against states whereas in many cases it involves a state or group of states against another state or group of states, IMO.
 
Old 01-06-2017, 10:18 PM   #68
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Sorry I feel this is also relevant here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
So it seems that everyone is doubling down - It is still the Russians, but sorry I cannot get it through my thick skull, or I have this bad habit of thinking for myself, plus again Shillery was a shitty candidate, AND with all the help of CNN's Donna Brazile and brib- *cough* doners, she still lost to a buffoon. Obama has days left, and also trying all he can to just throw road blocks against Trump. At this point, I rather hope as an act of defiance from Trump, on his first day to call back the Russian diplomats expelled by Obama. I would go as far as to go further and invite the ambassador to his inauguration along with Netanyahu. The ambassadors had 72 days, so they could have stayed long enough, then it would have been a moot point, too bad they left.
So I wonder how much damage that can still be done before Trump takes office anyhow?

[screencast]S1G94BcX5wo[/screencast]
 
Old 01-08-2017, 01:46 PM   #69
sundialsvcs
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It would be nice to think of "our old Cold War enemy" as being "the bogeyman, once again," but this notion is quite foolish to engage in, for two reasons:
  1. Although Russia certainly piled-on the nuclear weapons, before finally calling a halt to "the Arm$ Ra¢e," it was never established that they were ever the "Duck and Cover" enemy that they had so-eagerly been named.
  2. This mode of thinking, and of finger-pointing, is firmly entrenched in "comfortable-to-us old school thinking." It presupposes a conventional mode of War, and a conventional notion of Enemy, as well of course as a conventional mode of Attack.

Above all else, the international community must "think outside the box" in all respects. Your enemy is not right-now "thousands of miles away." It is among you. (Or, "physical location does not matter.")

Your defenses are: cunning, skepticism, and creativity, as well as vigilance. You must be the ones to ask, "What if?," before your enemy does. And you must not rely solely upon "government agencies with three-letter acronyms for names" to do this for you.
 
Old 01-08-2017, 03:17 PM   #70
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
It would be nice to think of "our old Cold War enemy" as being "the bogeyman, once again," but this notion is quite foolish to engage in, for two reasons:
  1. Although Russia certainly piled-on the nuclear weapons, before finally calling a halt to "the Arm$ Ra¢e," it was never established that they were ever the "Duck and Cover" enemy that they had so-eagerly been named.
  2. This mode of thinking, and of finger-pointing, is firmly entrenched in "comfortable-to-us old school thinking." It presupposes a conventional mode of War, and a conventional notion of Enemy, as well of course as a conventional mode of Attack.

Above all else, the international community must "think outside the box" in all respects. Your enemy is not right-now "thousands of miles away." It is among you. (Or, "physical location does not matter.")

Your defenses are: cunning, skepticism, and creativity, as well as vigilance. You must be the ones to ask, "What if?," before your enemy does. And you must not rely solely upon "government agencies with three-letter acronyms for names" to do this for you.
Sorry I know I keep brining this up, but the US was responsible for the state of Russia for the past few years. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia picked up the pieces - what was not mentioned during and after the Cold War, was that since there was no more Soviet Union, NATO should no longer exist(I know, I have been droning on about NATO, but...) - The constant expansion of NATO ever closer has caused the Russian Federation to sort of play catch-up - it did not help matters when Bush and Obama wanted to place missiles in Poland 'because of the Iranian threat' - forgetting that Poland is still considered to be a buffer country.

Everything that Putin has been doing up until now has been to counter what he sees as a threat - again it was the west particularly the US that 'kept on poking the bear' and now it is waking up.

Reminds me of that Michael Moore movie 'Canadian Bacon' - after the collapse of the USSR the US did not have a bogeyman and in the scene in the early part of the movie - the US and Russian presidents are talking and the US trying to coax a confrontation

[screencast]ETNSVEumyJk[/screencast]

Last edited by Jeebizz; 01-08-2017 at 03:51 PM.
 
Old 01-11-2017, 05:06 PM   #71
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Published on Jan 11, 2017

[screencast]AD9uJ8tBNVg[/screencast]


"WASHINGTON — U.S.-Russian talks on their separate fights against the Islamic State group are becoming more productive and more frequent, American officials said, with both sides trading information in real time and even outlining some of their strategic objectives in the months ahead. The progress dispels the notion that ties between the former Cold War foes are "frozen."

http://www.militarytimes.com/article...ation-on-syria


Hrmm..

Last edited by Jeebizz; 01-11-2017 at 05:24 PM.
 
Old 01-12-2017, 12:57 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
So I wonder how much damage that can still be done before Trump takes office anyhow?
Yesterday we found out! From this side of the water, it looks very much like the US intelligence services are mounting a coup d'etat against their elected president.
 
Old 01-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Yesterday we found out! From this side of the water, it looks very much like the US intelligence services are mounting a coup d'etat against their elected president.
...And here I thought Alex Jones was just a nutjob - who knew he turned out to be right...
 
Old 01-12-2017, 08:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
<<< just a nutjob >>>
Anyone in 95+% of politics or new$ i$!
 
Old 01-12-2017, 08:53 AM   #75
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The Americans have always regarded "the Russians" as a reliable source of "Duck And Cover," and anything else that might be useful to justify (sic) now-trillions of dollars' worth of Military-Industrial Complex™ spending.

They've never been thought of as "a real country." They're the bogeyman ... the thing under the bed.

I think that it is terrifying to some people that a President-elect, let alone a sitting President, is actually talking to ... "the Russians."

I frankly grow weary of "the same old Cold War rhetoric," warmed-over a full fifty years later, which serves only to 'justify' erecting hundreds of American military bases, declaring every continent, the ocean, and outer space to be "a military command," without even attempting to talk to anyone.

Could it be that we are actually afraid to "talk to 'the Russians?'" Are we afraid that they might turn out to be reasonable?

Of course "no 'head of state'" is a "nice guy." (Including ours!) We already know that. "Trust, but Verify" and all of that. But when "the Russians" were dragged out from under the bed as the "real reason" why Hillary Clinton L-o-s-t, I just ... "."
 
  


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