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Old 07-25-2016, 09:53 PM   #1
Xeratul
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Are all Linux distros with Systemd evil?


Hello,

Next to pulse audio, you might get more crap to your PC: systemd.

Systemd is often a serious topic of discussion. Is having systemd on your Linux system an issue?

wikipedia:
Quote:
As of 2015, many Linux distributions have adopted systemd as their default init system.[8] The increasing adoption of systemd has been controversial, with critics arguing the software has violated the Unix philosophy by becoming increasingly complex, and that distributions have been forced to adopt it due to the dependency of various other software upon it, including, most notably, the GNOME 3 desktop environment.
Should Systemd be removed in coming Debian distros?

Ubuntu can keep it, who care...
 
Old 07-25-2016, 09:59 PM   #2
frankbell
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No, SystemD is not evil. Many folks find it annoying, but annoying =/ evil.

There are a number of threads at LQ with detailed discussions about SystemD; the LQ Search will turn them up. I think you will find the answers to your question there.

There is already a non-systemd fork of Debian.
 
Old 07-25-2016, 10:02 PM   #3
Xeratul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
No, SystemD is not evil.
not evil, but systemd is bad
 
Old 07-25-2016, 10:37 PM   #4
jamison20000e
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Isn't there a mega thread for this diddlyD yet?
 
Old 07-26-2016, 03:20 AM   #5
MadmanRB
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Personally I can care less about the whole sysatemd crap.
Hell I can care less if it was made by Microsoft as long as it works I really dont care with these things.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 05:58 AM   #6
jamison20000e
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It ain't your grandpa's system anymore but as always with free and open,,, run it how ever the f you want!

http://www.tecmint.com/systemd-replaces-init-in-linux/
https://www.linux.com/learn/here-we-...-intro-systemd
http://www.pcworld.com/article/28418...-near-you.html
 
Old 07-26-2016, 07:21 AM   #7
sundialsvcs
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Actually, I have come to like systemd ... ... because with it system configuration has become visibly more organized. Instead of relying on a bunch of core processes that don't talk to one another, you now have a (larger ...) group of them that do.

The only thing that I wish it had was modularity.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 08:31 AM   #8
jamison20000e
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Question

Sundialsvcs:

Like me saying all opinions suck... doesn't
Quote:
The only thing that I wish it had was modularity.
through a in there; or, is that something that will come in time?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 07-26-2016 at 02:20 PM. Reason: wording
 
Old 07-26-2016, 10:16 AM   #9
offgridguy
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The systemd vs init debate never seems to go away, much like lilo vs grub.
Like many people, I resist change for the sake of change alone but if I can see
where change is needed,ie; is an obvious improvement and a benefit over something already
existing, then I will get on board.
I don't buy the argument that change is inevitable, not all changes have been good or
beneficial.
Is systemd an improvement? I will let those with more experience answer.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 11:56 AM   #10
hazel
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I don't mind systemd. It even has some advantages. It makes booting faster (and shut-down faster still) and I quite like the configuration files. They're easy to understand and write, which is more than you can say of init scripts. I don't like the binary journal though. Say you've just made an LFS and you can't boot it. With sysvinit, you can just boot with SystemRescue, mount the root partition and look in the logs to see what went wrong. With systemd you can't because only systemd-journalctl can read those logs.

But I really don't see why this subject arouses so much venom and hatred.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 02:15 PM   #11
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I don't mind systemd. It even has some advantages. It makes booting faster (and shut-down faster still) and I quite like the configuration files. They're easy to understand and write, which is more than you can say of init scripts. I don't like the binary journal though. Say you've just made an LFS and you can't boot it. With sysvinit, you can just boot with SystemRescue, mount the root partition and look in the logs to see what went wrong. With systemd you can't because only systemd-journalctl can read those logs.

But I really don't see why this subject arouses so much venom and hatred.
I'm not sure, either. "Rescue disks" that I have seen already include a binary logfile-reader.

One of the many things that the project attempted to do was to provide consistency in log-data formatting, as well as to conserve space. Production logs can grow by megabytes per second.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 02:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
There are a number of threads at LQ with detailed discussions about SystemD; the LQ Search will turn them up. I think you will find the answers to your question there.

There is already a non-systemd fork of Debian.
Yo, Devuan after a year and a half of Jessie release still hasn't release anything yet.

To the OP: the list is still big though. But yes, major distributions (Debian/Ubuntu/etc., Fedora, Mageia, SUSE, EL) all have gone with it.

systemd isn't evil, its developers are. Also I wrote this some time ago, you (ye) may want to check it out.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 09:37 PM   #13
frankbell
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Devuan beta is in release and it works just fine. It is, in fact, a nice piece of work.

I did a podcast about it for Hacker Public Radio.

I do think, though, that Devuan is too late to catch the wave and will not surf its way into the shore.

Last edited by frankbell; 07-26-2016 at 09:38 PM.
 
Old 07-27-2016, 03:15 AM   #14
Germany_chris
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I like systemd and wouldn't go back. I'm also a fan of pulse however Lennart is thin skinned man-child.
 
Old 07-27-2016, 09:35 AM   #15
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I don't use or like systemd - it's not my thing. But I don't subscribe to the idea that any kind of ideological/militant approach and/or boycott is going to weaken it in any way (never mind personal attacks directed at the developers) - likewise projects like Devuan don't really achieve anything and there are smaller Debian based Linux distributions which have made more headway in removing systemd, not to mention the many distributions and other operating systems which haven't adopted it - while Devuan seem to have just done a lot of talking, proselyting, speculating and investing in gaining a 'fan following' who are for the most part not developers and not really informed. Personally I think such groups/projects lack credibility and only strengthen the projects they oppose. And after all, systemd is a credible software project, rather than a distribution (or minor reworking of a distribution). If this had been another viable init system project vs systemd, it might have been taken more seriously.

Last edited by cynwulf; 07-27-2016 at 09:37 AM.
 
  


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