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Old 10-08-2017, 05:12 AM   #1036
rvijay
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This was getting worse, so I opened my PC and there was quite a bit of dust insides
but not as bad as the last two times. These were blown away. The inner sides of the blades of the CPU fan had dust on them that was not removed before, this I removed
now. Unable to remove the CPU heat Sink Two clip Latch, will check youtube for this.

One vital reason I was not having crashes before was that I didn't run my PC constantly and gave it adequate rest, used it only when needed. There is no reason to run an older PC constantly and overheat it. Will try and see if this helps.

Need to clean the bottom sides of fan and inbetween the heat sink blades with alcohol dipped cotton swab. Will reserve this for future.

This video explains the likely reason as a broken mounting bracket that doesn't hold the heat sink in place, I have exactly this type of bracket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZdKq8Tjzx8

However, mine isn't broken. I have to certainly try replacing the thermal paste,
but after watching this video, I am not too keen as the bracket maybe broken
causing a major issue, I am not a fan of buying things on ebay, never done it before. This is too much hazzle for an older PC.

So will try to reduce its consistent use, give it atleast few hours rest daily and see if it helps, if it does then glad that issue is solved. Time will tell.

This video shows how to remove the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNkJXTYZ9JE
Can try this in the future if needed.

Last edited by rvijay; 10-08-2017 at 05:27 AM.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 06:30 AM   #1037
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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Quote:
then the CPU usage goes above 100%
You need to tell some scientists about that!!
When actually doing something, if your cpu is NOT running at 100% (single channel) then there is something wrong, that is what it is supposed to do!
Lack of RAM is most of your problem. Also you should check that it is not overheating as suggested.
I have a 2.4Ghz P4 with 2Gb ram and that copes with anything I trow at it WEB wise.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 08:03 AM   #1038
IsaacKuo
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1GB of RAM should be adequate, but not with Puppy and probably not with Seamonkey web browser. The problem is that Puppy eats up a good chunk of that RAM on its semi-compressed file system, and things will get progressively worse if you don't reboot the computer because more and more of it will be de-compressed into a union'ed tmpfs (without even freeing up the space from the compressed file).

In contrast, if you install Debian (with lightweight DE/WM, such as XFCE4 or IceWM), and use chromium web browser, the amount of RAM consumed at idle will be reduced and the chromium web browser will be relatively efficient with the remaining RAM.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 10:40 AM   #1039
rvijay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacKuo View Post
1GB of RAM should be adequate, but not with Puppy and probably not with Seamonkey web browser. The problem is that Puppy eats up a good chunk of that RAM on its semi-compressed file system, and things will get progressively worse if you don't reboot the computer because more and more of it will be de-compressed into a union'ed tmpfs (without even freeing up the space from the compressed file).

In contrast, if you install Debian (with lightweight DE/WM, such as XFCE4 or IceWM), and use chromium web browser, the amount of RAM consumed at idle will be reduced and the chromium web browser will be relatively efficient with the remaining RAM.
I checked on the Ram usage, only about 180 Mb or so is used normally and about
350 Mb when playing videos. I also have swap, that is also hardly used. So this doesn't indicate the need for more Ram.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 11:12 AM   #1040
rvijay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
You need to tell some scientists about that!!
When actually doing something, if your cpu is NOT running at 100% (single channel) then there is something wrong, that is what it is supposed to do!
Lack of RAM is most of your problem. Also you should check that it is not overheating as suggested.
I have a 2.4Ghz P4 with 2Gb ram and that copes with anything I trow at it WEB wise.
After I gave it a good rest, CPU usage on viewing video, opening/changing apps
etc., is at 80% max approx. Moreover, most times it is around 40% for viewing video. So the total shutdown when not in use is helping with its cooling.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 12:03 PM   #1041
rvijay
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wikihow.com is failing to load on this PC now on old SeaMonkey and Opera web browsers with the error message below. So trying a live CD of a more recent OS is needed in future for this PC, it is actually needed right now but I am delaying it some.



Secure Connection Failed

An error occurred during a connection to www.wikihow.com.
Cannot communicate securely with peer: no common encryption algorithm(s).
(Error code: ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap)

The page you are trying to view can not be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 12:45 PM   #1042
ondoho
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^
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvijay View Post
Puppy Linux older version distro from 2012 or so
relevant?
 
Old 10-08-2017, 02:03 PM   #1043
rvijay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
^

relevant?
Slacko Puppy version 5.3.3, released May 2012
 
Old 10-08-2017, 02:55 PM   #1044
rvijay
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I gave it enough rest and started PC, xwindows crashed again. This time it is not just rest, overheating, there is some hardware issue for sure that has to be managed.

If it is not the CPU paste, then it is the onboard video card perhaps. As with the
hard drive malfunction, entire PC may freeze or shutdown etc., Checkedout all the capacitors on the mobo, they all seem ok, no leaks on top.

At this point it seems best to take whatever is possible from this PC and discard the Case, Mobo etc., Either that or replace the Mobo, CPU etc., and see if that helps. Must also experiment and learn as much as possible from these problems. This is a great PC to learn from. Lastly must backup all data that is not backed up ASAP.
Anytime this PC can fail at this stage. This PC is taking its last few breaths it seems, sad but accepting this gives peace.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 04:04 PM   #1045
rvijay
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Talking

Ok, had to REALLY, REALLY do this as it was getting to be quite bad.

Removed the heat sink, it was a struggle with the clip both when taking it off
and putting it back on. There was quite a bit of dust below the CPU fan on the inner sides of the blades, on the heat sink and on top of the CPU itself. There was
so CPU paste and it was totally gone. Cleared all the dust, even washed the fan blades with moist paper towels. Applied TOMATO PASTE on top of the CPU, it is a bit
moist, so used it sparingly and lightly. Also used this chance to oil the CPU fan. Then put everything together and back on. Turned on PC and it is working fine.
Will see how it performs now and if/how often the crashes happen now. Will be interesting to observe. Will observe this for a week atleast.

Next is to try a different OS after this for the web. Perhaps a more recent OS may also help improve the performance. Will wait for this.

Bending down and struggling with the brackets was a bit demanding as I age. So, for those trying it, helps to prepare to do this slowly and in steps. Don't rush or push if anything doesn't seem right. It can break the brackets etc., and then
this is very big trouble.

Edited to add:
Tried to play a youtube video to see how CPU performs after these changes. It went to 100% on open but quickly dropped to 50% or so and then stayed around
that range just going to about 60% or so few times, so this is a very huge change in performance from before even an hour ago. Looks promising for now.

Since the tomato paste was a bit too watery, I kept a bit of it on a paper towel for a while for the moisture to be absorbed, next time will even add a tiny bit of baking soda or corn starch etc., to make it a bit more thick, this might improve performance even better.

Edited again to add further:
In reflection, here is how the problem started and got worse. When I tried to get rid of the dust inside my PC, a bit of the dust from the fan went inside
the heat sink and also behind it. This is a very small amount for us, but it is enough to cause heat issues for the CPU. Since I get more dust indoors, this means every few years this issue will present itself and I have to do the same.
So, have to reduce the need to dust the PC insides too often. Also, find a way perhaps to clean the dust without having it go inside the heat sink and CPU area too much. Lastly must consider getting extra brackets in advance and keeping if the one I have on this PC breaks. This will avoid any frustrations. Will reflect further on and see.

Last edited by rvijay; 10-08-2017 at 04:43 PM.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 04:19 PM   #1046
onebuck
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Member response

Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvijay View Post
Ok, had to REALLY, REALLY do this as it was getting to be quite bad.

Removed the heat sink, it was a struggle with the clip both when taking it off
and putting it back on. There was quite a bit of dust below the CPU fan on the inner sides of the blades, on the heat sink and on top of the CPU itself. There was
so CPU paste and it was totally gone. Cleared all the dust, even washed the fan blades with moist paper towels. Applied TOMATO PASTE on top of the CPU, it is a bit
moist, so used it sparingly and lightly. Also used this chance to oil the CPU fan. Then put everything together and back on. Turned on PC and it is working fine.
Never heard of Tomato Paste for a CPU compound. Your not using a silicon based compound? You should clean the CPU so no old paste is left. Then apply a thin spread of quality Silicon compound, good choice would be Artic Silver or just plain white silicon thermal compound. If a thermal pad then you must remove the old pad completely. I use plastic razor blades so no scratches made to the top of the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvijay View Post
Will see how it performs now and if/how often the crashes happen now. Will be interesting to observe. Will observe this for a week at least.

Next is to try a different OS after this for the web. Perhaps a more recent OS may also help improve the performance. Will wait for this.

Bending down and struggling with the brackets was a bit demanding as I age. So, for those trying it, helps to prepare to do this slowly and in steps. Don't rush or push if anything doesn't seem right. It can break the brackets etc., and then
this is very big trouble.
I always place the systems on a chest high workstation therefore no strain and things are worked at chest level to keep from hurting myself. No bending and I can see things close up.

Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!
 
Old 10-08-2017, 04:25 PM   #1047
enine
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WFT, tomato paste? The acidicness of it will probably damage something long term though it will it will probably rot and stink first.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 04:45 PM   #1048
rvijay
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Originally Posted by enine View Post
WFT, tomato paste? The acidicness of it will probably damage something long term though it will it will probably rot and stink first.
I saw it as a replacement for CPU paste in one video, folks also tried other different things like cheese etc., Another good try will be tooth paste with some baking soda.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 04:48 PM   #1049
rvijay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
I always place the systems on a chest high workstation therefore no strain and things are worked at chest level to keep from hurting myself. No bending and I can see things close up.

Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!
Yes, the last suggestion did help. However, for chest high, the table I have will not horizontally hold this PC. Hence, I was forced to place it on the ground. Also got a scratch on leg when moving around from leg scraping on PC case edge. Shortage of space, so did the best I can. Glad this issue cameup now than later on in winter when static is very high indoors locally.
 
Old 10-08-2017, 05:40 PM   #1050
enine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvijay View Post
I saw it as a replacement for CPU paste in one video, folks also tried other different things like cheese etc., Another good try will be tooth paste with some baking soda.
There is a guy who made a video of himself testing his own bulletproof vest on himself, are you going to try that too?

I'm being facetious here but the point is you can't always trust everything you see on a video. Food doesn't mix with electronics very well, your going to cause more problems than what you fix.
 
  


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