what are your thoughts on this subject?

i basically believe that one inequality does not cure another inequality. race should not be a factor, period, ever.

now, there are several forms of affirmitive action, what i'm specifically referring to right now, would be college admissions, which have been in the spotlight for some time now, especially since the texas hopwood ruling and the michigan ruling. i like the fact that our president is offically against racial discrimination of any type, except that his new plan would set aside extra public funds for schools with high minority populations. ex: schools with 25% or more hispanic population. isn't that the same thing? instead of saying you can't get in because you're not the right color, you're saying that you don't deserve the same funding because you're not the right color.

when bush was governor, he instituted a policy that any student in the top 10% of their class would automatically be admitted into any public state college/university. this is nice since it's merit based, not race, but leaves another problem. if i go to aleif-elsik high school, and graduate in a class of 1000, i'd need a pretty high gpa to make the top 10%. however, if i go to bastrop high school, and graduate in a class of 50, then the grades will not be of the same level. it's not the same kind of opportunity.

but, it sure beats state-sanctioned racism.

I dont exactly consider "affirtmitive action" racism in anyway. I have actually heard many people say that when in fact, it totally contradicts the meaning. I think thay "AF" was more or less a very quick solution to the unfairness that happens to be apparent in most business situations. I totally feel that everything should be based on merit and work ethic. I don't think that someone should be a cop because their need's to be an equal ratio of "color" on the squad. That just doesn't make sense, and if you do not believe me, watch "American History X." That movie will give you a clear example of how bad AF can be. I think that any place that chooses to impliment AF is only hurting themselves. I feel that people should be chosen for a job based on how well they can benfit the company.

Now also, i am white, but when i fill out a form of any type that asks my race or ethnicity, i always skip that part, not because i am embarrased to be white, but i just think that it is unfair and i wouldn't fill it out even if i was forced.

Also, i see AF as being more like feminism. People complain about shit that has been around for years ( im not proud of it) and now they want a change? They want to change "manhole cover" to "person hole cover"and "Chairman" to "chairperson". I think this is all super trivial and instead of worrying how many blacks there are comapred to whites, i think we should all try to do our best, to be considered for the best and also try and stop this impending war, that will make everyone realize that we are all the same, if anything were to happen.

I've always found it a strange if not shocking that there appear to be so many forms in the US that ask your ethnicity. Why is that?
In my opinion that only reinforces segregation. Why should it matter in any way or in any case what ethnic group a person belongs to?
besides why bother asking for ethnicity when in many cases the name says enough? Recent study (sorry I read it in a Dutch newspaper, no link) has shown that there's already enough discrimination in the US on the basis of names. So why reinforce that by also asking for the ethnicity which makes it even more clearer?

As far as feminism is concerned, yes they use AF in Holland as well to enforce women's position on the job market and yes the oportunities are still unequal (women get pregnant, don't want to put in the hours, don't stay on as long as men, those are the prejudices we have to fight against), but still I wouldn't like to get a job that way. I'd rather compete in an honoust way.

BTW in Holland someone who went to law school gets the title master, at one point they wanted to introduce a feminine version, guess what they came up with: mistress....!!!!!

Anne

That's kind of iffy, but I think there is a distinction here between race and financial status. What I mean to say is does a school that is dirt-poor and has old textbooks, no computers, and not enough teachers deserve more public funding than a school in a middle-upperclass neighborhood with the latest a/v equipment and computer labs?

I think they do...

definately. If you are talking about school, then you really cannot go by the book on that. You would have to which schools need the help the most ( in the US, NYC schools) and then go from there.

That's what happens when you try to please everyone.

i couldn't agree with you more. but how does that corrolate to race and/or ethnicity? shouldn't it be based upon income then? so are all minority schools poor schools? hell no.

Well that's my point, as I said "I think there is a distinction here between race and financial status." I think that at the best of times GB is not the best at explaining things in public, and perhaps you misquoted him. Do you have a link to a reputable news source that explains what you stated above?

As long as schools that need money are getting it, is there a point in arguing over sementics?

why is it only schools that you are mentioning? AF takes place more often in the office and in colleges. Think about it.

try reading my first post again. i acknowledged that. think about it.

Well, there was a time when AA was going on and it was against Black Americans....Jim Crow laws...this is one reason AA came about, to right a wrong that went on for years against another group of people in the USA.

I totally noticed that, it just seemed like we were focusing on school. But besides that, i think that people getting jobs because of their level of minority is what kills this country. Just by having something like that, it seems as if the work ethic isn't what it used to be, because now a black person can walk up to a construction site and count the number of black people working there. If there isn't a fair ratio, he can easily get a job by telling the foreman that he will report him for discrimination. That's the whole point though. AF will be misused and abused, as will everything we try to do to make this country fair. I think we should adopt a policy that says " quit your bitching." If you aren't the right person for the job, that's how it goes.

well, i didn't quote anyone. the particular information about 25% hispanic pops was from a news radio broadcast. 590 klbj. http://www.klbj.com

semantics are everything in law and politics, that's why we have those that interperet the law, judges. and yes, it is worth arguing over. that is our money, and i want it appropriated fairly. now, when it comes down to it, it's up to the states to appropriate most funds (whereas schools are mostly state funded), but i don't want any of my money going to ANYONE because of their race, and only because of their race.

IS anyone not white here? I think it would be nice to see a different POV for this from someone that we are "talking" about bu yet, we aren't.

my race is insignificant, but i'm hispanic