LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 07-09-2022, 05:02 PM   #16
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDo, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 4,466

Rep: Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195

The only human society without politics is an absolute dictatorship. The only way humans get along without politics is by total isolation from each other, or total subservience. Neither appeals to me as a "utopia".
 
Old 07-18-2022, 03:55 AM   #17
frenchn00b
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2007
Location: E.U., Mountains :-)
Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
Posts: 2,561

Rep: Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
The only human society without politics is an absolute dictatorship. The only way humans get along without politics is by total isolation from each other, or total subservience. Neither appeals to me as a "utopia".
"absolute dictatorship" : It seems that in this Utopia, living City there is no dictatorship.
It seems to work without it.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 09:37 AM   #18
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDo, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 4,466

Rep: Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchn00b View Post
"absolute dictatorship" : It seems that in this Utopia, living City there is no dictatorship.
It seems to work without it.
And how do people resolve their differences?
If they kill each other, that is not "utopia" in my book! If they negotiate, that is politics. How do they decide things for the good of the group? If they discuss it and come to a decision, that is politics.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 10:53 AM   #19
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,876
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578
Utopias require the presence of a "benevolent dictator" who is loved by everyone and therefore accepted by everyone as (s)he tells everyone what to do and they willingly do it. Such a thing does not exist in real life.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 10:56 AM   #20
jailbait
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia, USA
Distribution: Debian 11
Posts: 8,052

Rep: Reputation: 456Reputation: 456Reputation: 456Reputation: 456Reputation: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenCollver View Post
Just out of curiosity, how do you tell whether they worked or not?
They die within a generation, usually imploding on a sex scandal or a money scandal or both.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 02:43 PM   #21
hazel
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 6,431
Blog Entries: 17

Rep: Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811Reputation: 3811
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Utopias require the presence of a "benevolent dictator" who is loved by everyone and therefore accepted by everyone as (s)he tells everyone what to do and they willingly do it. Such a thing does not exist in real life.
What about Slackware then?
 
Old 07-19-2022, 06:44 AM   #22
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, RPi OS & Android
Posts: 14,082

Rep: Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921
I find this hilarious. You guys are slowly making progress at working out the conditions necessary for a Utopia and necessary Qualities in a Benevolent Dictator. One religion in particular has been offering you just that, repeatedly trying to tell you, and you don't want to know. Do you all secretly want to be the BDFL?
 
Old 07-19-2022, 10:31 AM   #23
rokytnji
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Waaaaay out West Texas
Distribution: antiX 21, MX 21 Fluxbox
Posts: 6,590
Blog Entries: 21

Rep: Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302
Get rid of private ownership of excessive toys which means one must dump capitalism and everyone under the sun is equal and does not covet what others have. Because technology can be organized to full fill all needs. Hospital care. Everything. Equal under the sun.

Never happen. Capitalism. Which walks hand in with politics and wars. Has been embedded into the social conscience so long it like breathing. So dream on.

This has to be planet wide change. One country that has it that good will likely be invaded. As human nature has shown.

https://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

Then there is " what about me " from this over crowded planets mind set everyone has to deal with.

Planetwide or it will never happen. Because we are acting like a virus lately.
 
Old 07-19-2022, 01:29 PM   #24
Ser Olmy
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2012
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 3,222

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Get rid of private ownership of excessive toys which means one must dump capitalism and everyone under the sun is equal and does not covet what others have.
I think you've got that backwards. It's the negative traits in human nature that feed materialism, not the other way around.

The idea in Exodus 20:17 is "you shall not covet." If we do, it's entirely a failure on our part.

Envy and hedonism occur as a result of weaknesses in human nature, not as a consequence of inequality or capitalism. Abolishing private property would not address the underlying cause of envy, and if history tells us anything, it won't even paper over the issue.

For instance, do you envy Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, or Elon Musk their wealth? I certainly don't, because I have a roof over my head and enough food to eat every day. The fact that others have in excess does not rob me of what I have. It's not a zero-sum game.

Now, I also have access to technology and luxury items that dwarfs the standards of even kings and emperors of old; that's probably true of just about everyone reading this. And yet, according to the current societal standards, I'm supposedly really poor.

I regularly see people much wealthier than myself claiming they're being economically oppressed, and saying they're entitled to some sort of compensation or handout just for existing. That's some real "coveting" right there, and it's the result of humans embracing the worst parts of their nature.

"Capitalism" (which is just a politically left-wing term for Free Markets) has next to nothing to do with it, although one could argue that excessive focus on material wealth doesn't exactly cultivate virtues like humility and generosity.
 
Old 07-19-2022, 06:45 PM   #25
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,876
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578Reputation: 3578
Yes, there are plenty of mythological figures which, while drowning in water, were cursed with a never-ending thirst.
 
Old 07-20-2022, 09:58 AM   #26
AnanthaP
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 949

Rep: Reputation: 216Reputation: 216Reputation: 216
Auroville is genuine.

Krishna McKenzie (featured around minute 7 to 9 or so in France24 viddy https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows...y-of-auroville ), is also featured in a few youtube videos of Andrew Millison a well known permaculture expert from the Oregon state university and also features in the youtube channel "down to earth" - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iOTq6kb4qM for example.

Pondicherry is a former French colony where the cops still wear Kepis and the older citizens still vote in French elections.

Do visit if you can.


AP

Last edited by AnanthaP; 07-20-2022 at 10:35 AM.
 
Old 07-21-2022, 07:26 AM   #27
rokytnji
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Waaaaay out West Texas
Distribution: antiX 21, MX 21 Fluxbox
Posts: 6,590
Blog Entries: 21

Rep: Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302Reputation: 3302
I don't have it backwards. It would make this worlds use case less stressful.

Everyone knows assholes are a dime a dozen.
 
Old 07-21-2022, 10:42 AM   #28
BenCollver
Rogue Class
 
Registered: Sep 2006
Location: OR, USA
Distribution: Slackware64-15.0
Posts: 309
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 118Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jailbait View Post
They die within a generation...
By that standard one could consider all human beings as failures.
 
Old 07-21-2022, 11:55 AM   #29
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, RPi OS & Android
Posts: 14,082

Rep: Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921Reputation: 1921
As a matter of interest: There is a lot of talk about what the Utopia must be like. There is very little talk about the Qualifications for entry. Let's presume that the BDFL had set stringent & uncompromising qualifications for entry. Would folks be prepared to make serious life adjustments to make sure the Utopia stayed a Utopia, or would you rather pass up on this offer?
 
Old 07-21-2022, 06:06 PM   #30
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDo, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 4,466

Rep: Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195Reputation: 2195
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
As a matter of interest: There is a lot of talk about what the Utopia must be like. There is very little talk about the Qualifications for entry. Let's presume that the BDFL had set stringent & uncompromising qualifications for entry. Would folks be prepared to make serious life adjustments to make sure the Utopia stayed a Utopia, or would you rather pass up on this offer?
Hmmm. Lobotomy entrance exam?
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Multiculturalism in technology and its limits: AsyncAPI and the long road to open source utopia LXer Syndicated Linux News 1 01-05-2022 03:18 PM
LXer: Brazil's FOSS utopia image at risk LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 01-25-2007 08:03 AM
LXer: Digital UTOPIA LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 11-05-2006 01:21 PM
utopia and automatic mount pen drives mikepj Linux - Newbie 0 11-01-2004 11:21 AM
Project Utopia + Slackware 10 Toth Slackware 5 06-26-2004 09:42 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration