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Old 09-28-2017, 02:30 AM   #1
rblampain
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A banking question


In .au, it is possible to make what is commonly called a "direct deposit" or a "debit card payment" from one bank to another if the recipient of the payment provides the details of the account to which the payment is made. This consist of an account name, what they call a "BSB" and an account number.
So to proceed, when I have that information I can make a payment through the software of my bank.

Questions: is that a system limited to Australia or is it international? Or have each country implemented their own national system? Is there another simple similar international system?

The object is to find if this system can be used on a website to receive payments from international members of an organisation in an unusual way by which what is paid remains in the bank/country where it is paid - no need for currency conversion of each payment.

PS: I know I can ask the banks but I also know the answer will only be sale propaganda.

Thank you for your help.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 04:43 AM   #2
ondoho
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not sure i understand fully, but do you mean direct debit?
i'm sure in germany at least this is very common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit#Germany

also, of course it's always possible to simply pay directly to someone's account, if you know the account number & bank.
i'd guess this is a valid method of payment all around the world.
transparent and legally binding for both sides.
tbh, i don't understand why everyone's using paypal...
 
Old 09-28-2017, 06:30 AM   #3
TenTenths
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rblampain View Post
The object is to find if this system can be used on a website to receive payments from international members of an organisation in an unusual way by which what is paid remains in the bank/country where it is paid - no need for currency conversion of each payment.
The only way you can do this is to have a bank account in each country involved. This would be a MASSIVE undertaking to open all these accounts (if indeed it was even possible, as many countries have residency requirements for individuals and other requirements for companies)

If it's the "loss" in currency conversion that you're concerned about then for many business bank account holders bank can offer accounts on a "per currency" basis. So you can have an AU$ and a US$ account and can have payments made in to or out of both and the balance is maintained within each currency. This would be common for companies trading in and out in specific currencies.

As regards depositing in to an account, all accounts will have some form of unique identifier. For example in EU there is IBAN and other countries / territories have their own similar systems. Just to complicate matters as part of the EU's roll-out of IBAN there was also a roll out of SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area) the TL;DR upshot is that you should be able to send people money just by using their 16 digit debit card PAN

Banking is highly regulated to mitigate money laundering, this is why criminals prefer crypto-currencies.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 09:29 AM   #4
petelq
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Your bank can make international payments but there is a little more information needed to make sure it gets to the right recipient.
If you mean do other countries have a system similar to yours in australia then I would say, yes (most if not all).
In the Uk we have a sort code instead of BSB but the principle is the same.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:41 PM   #5
sundialsvcs
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PayPal is basically a front-door for an ACH = Automated Clearing House service. In banking terms, they act as a fiduciary agent representing the business interests of both parties. They broker transactions that take place between buyers and sellers worldwide. This is a very important service that is fundamental to commercial transactions of all kinds. Many companies offer these services to businesses. PayPal offers them to the general public.

Sellers can tender goods knowing that PayPal has received the money and is holding it in escrow. They can attach shipment-tracking numbers and other evidence to the transaction record. Buyers know that the seller will not receive the funds until the transaction has been consummated to the satisfaction of both sides. PayPal is an impartial third-party with no interest in the transaction nor in either participant. In database terms, they provide a "two-phase commit," as well as a dispute-resolution mechanism that protects both parties' interests.

I would not pay someone – especially someone overseas – without using such a service for our mutual protection. The modest fees that PayPal charges are well worth it to me. I want a third party handling the money side of things, so that it isn't "my word against yours" that both of us actually did what we said we'd do.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 09-28-2017 at 12:51 PM.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 03:11 PM   #6
moxieman99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rblampain View Post
The object is to find if this system can be used on a website to receive payments from international members of an organisation in an unusual way by which what is paid remains in the bank/country where it is paid - no need for currency conversion of each payment.
1. Certainly a bank or consortium of banks can use net settling at the end of the day/interval proposed, but you still are going to have currency conversions at one point or another.

2. You have the problem of know-your-customer rules for international payments. No bank wants to be accused of money laundering or such.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 03:31 PM   #7
jefro
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Companies in the US love the ACH. They get their money faster out of customers banks.

It's all about the float.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 03:31 PM   #8
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxieman99 View Post
You have the problem of know-your-customer rules for international payments. No bank wants to be accused of money laundering or such.
Whereas, "if you just use PayPal, like everybody else does," ... ... you have the added safeguard that "PayPal knows their stuff." They are on the lookout for signs of criminal activity, on both sides of any transaction that they broker, and they also accumulate a history of the activities of both parties, for fraud-prevention, law-enforcement and all other purposes. They keep meticulous records of every transaction and can prove each movement of the money.

"Financial clearing-house services" are vitally important, and I cordially suggest that you would be "rather a fool" to do without them. They add very little financial overhead to the transaction, calling it "their profit," and their profits are well-deserved.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 03:37 PM   #9
enorbet
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Some banks, or at least the one I've been using, have some odd practices. For example on my Online Banking there is a "Pay Bills" tab for services either one time or recurring BUT they charge for electronic account-to-account transfer but for no charge will write out and send a physical check via traditional "snail mail". This sometimes presents difficulties as some banks have very few or even just one address to receive physical checks. So even if the recipient is just one town over the check may have to go half way around the country before it is finally delivered, assuming one knows that "clearing house" address in the first place.

One would think that banks do business all the time and so should be able to handle such details for you but the legwork, again at least at my bank is all mine. I do understand that larger accounts get preferential treatment and mine is by no standard "large", especially those exposed to online activity, but it is a bit of a pita not to mention far from fair.

It was good to read here about international transfers as I have experienced banking reticence in this area. I play an online game that has a few for pay services that for over 2 years, maybe 16 transactions, were red-flagged and denied until I called. Each time I explained the service, how small the amounts were ($20-$40) and after the 3rd time that I had done this before so "suspicious" was hardly accurate - please clear from now on. It took some 16 recurrences before the flags and denials stopped.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 07:56 PM   #10
AnanthaP
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In .in it is similar. What you call BSB is called the NEFT code which stands for NATIONAL ELECTRONIC FUND TRANSFER CODE which is mandated for every bank and branch in the bank. Its a 10 character code with the 1st 4 chars denoting the bank and next 6 to be generated uniquely by the bank.

Eg. CITI is obviously CITInnnnnn and so on.

FYI even for credit cards, the issuing bank has to have a distinct account.

Last edited by AnanthaP; 09-28-2017 at 08:17 PM.
 
Old 09-29-2017, 08:26 AM   #11
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTenths View Post
The only way you can do this is to have a bank account in each country involved.
you'd have to count the whole european union and beyond as one country then.
this i know 100%.
i would think that similar systems for cross-border transactions exist elsewhere...
 
Old 09-29-2017, 11:27 AM   #12
vmccord
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PayPal is not an ACH system
 
Old 09-29-2017, 12:30 PM   #13
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmccord View Post
PayPal is not an ACH system
Strictly speaking, this is true: "ACH" colloquially refers to the entire system that settles all forms of transactions among banks. PayPal acts in this capacity as a transaction brokerage and escrow service. Thanks for the correction.

PayPal has many competitors in this service but it's probably the best-known service provider to consumers. The essential role is that of a neutral third party, representing both buyer and seller, which holds funds in escrow during the transaction, and which provides a dispute-resolution service through a contract agreed-to by both parties. If the transaction is consummated as anticipated, the seller knows that he will get paid, but the buyer knows that he will not get paid until then. And, no matter what actual details are involved in getting the money finally to the right place, there is objective proof that this actually occurred. Other relevant details such as shipment tracking numbers are also recorded. "Most lawsuits and bad-will arise from mistakes and misunderstandings," and these services greatly reduce the opportunity for such mishaps.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 09-29-2017 at 12:32 PM.
 
Old 09-29-2017, 12:48 PM   #14
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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I used to pay directly into one of my supplier's banks from the UK to Germany.
It was faster, and a lot cheaper than any other method.
All I needed was the international bank code and an account number.
 
  


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