Originally Posted by beachboy2

Jeebizz,

As far as the EU is concerned, I think you will find that the fate of the euro will play the principal role in determining future events rather than just the rise of populist parties, although these will also have some effect:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...oseph-Stiglitz

Originally Posted by hazel

Someone once said that to eat, you need a knife and fork. For national Treasury departments, the currency is the fork and fiscal measures are the knife. By coordinating the two, the economy can be kept on track. But Eurozone countries are now stuck with a knife and no fork: they can vary their taxes but not the value of their currency. Logically there is no way that this can work.

The vileness of what was done to Greece, the birthplace of European democracy, was one of the things that led me to vote Leave.

Originally Posted by beachboy2

cynwulf,

It is far from being a Greek problem.

Germany has a massive surplus whilst at the same time Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece are all suffering because they are tied to the euro.

If these countries still had their old currencies then things would not be anywhere near as bad.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

It seems extremely clear to me (full disclosure: "as an American ...") that the EU Treaty – following directly the examples created by e.g. NAFTA and the now-failed TPP treaties – will fail unless its proponents drastically alter, and reduce, their vision of what it should consist of.

It seems clear to me that Brussels wanted to create a Federal Government ... a "United States of Europe," with its capitol in "Brussels, DC." But their catastrophic mistake was "to let everybody in." The EU became "oxen unequally yoked together." And, Brussels reached much too far, much too early.

Financially, the system was sucking lifeblood out of strong nations, pushing it into "the Euro," and distributing that strength to weak ones who benefited greatly merely from accepting the Euro.

Legally, Brussels wanted to have an "über-supreme court." It didn't matter what the courts or the laws of your nation said: Brussels' courts trumped everyone. But they didn't simply limit themselves to trade issues.

The "EU Passport" quickly turned into a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for citizens of small, poor countries who just wanted to get the hell out of Dodge and, of course, "move to <London | Paris | Berlin | Rotterdam. >" (Wouldn't you?) And the EU told those countries that they weren't allowed to say "no."

In order to survive, the EU is going to have to very quickly turn itself back into a trade-only Union, and give up most of its self-appointed powers. Its leaders are going to have to talk to, and listen to, all of its present Members, and, quite probably, some of those Members who do not leave on their own are going to have to be sent away.

I frankly don't give it too much chance of success.

While I think that Europe could benefit from a genuine "trade union" containing many of the core elements originally contemplated for the EU, I think that it got something that became its own worst enemy. And I think that this happened because Brussels sincerely believed that "no one would ever leave."

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5670586

Secular Talk - European Union Wants A Law To Fight ‘Fake News’

Originally Posted by Jeebizz

This is an interesting analysis: Majority of Europeans Would Support Trump Style Immigration Freeze - though technically it has already happened, if you look at Hungary and their refusal to even take any refugees/migrants.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

Then, let London also decide to convert the Houses of Parliament into apartment buildings for low-income housing, because, as the EU Treaty is now structured, there is just one Federal Government in "The United States of Europe," and its true capitol is in "Brussels, DC." Anyone from the most dirt-poor country in Europe is free to come to London and to enjoy the fruits of the land to which they have come ... and they will, in enormous numbers. Especially if they're really sick and need to take advantage of your National Health Service (until they've bankrupted it ... oops).

No, the people of the country really did decide to reject this treaty, and although they are the first they won't be the last. EU might (or, might not) survive the experience, but if it does survive it will be in a radically different form with a much smaller charter and purpose.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

America (and China) has already rejected the "TPP" treaty, and I think that the present "NAFTA" treaty won't be too far behind. (Mexico might be the one to withdraw first.) All of these trade deals, including EU, are very poorly designed.

"Trade," I think we all agree, "is a Good Thing.™" But giving up one's national sovereignty in the name of "Trade" is not.

As Donald Trump has already observed, on the other side of The Pond, you must have a national identity and you must put your own country first. Only then can you "trade from a position of strength," and protect the vital interests of your own citizens, as your citizens implicitly expect you to do at all times.