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Old 02-09-2017, 06:36 PM   #106
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachboy2 View Post
Jeebizz,

As far as the EU is concerned, I think you will find that the fate of the euro will play the principal role in determining future events rather than just the rise of populist parties, although these will also have some effect:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...oseph-Stiglitz
That was an interesting read - but there is a bit more to it than just economic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Someone once said that to eat, you need a knife and fork. For national Treasury departments, the currency is the fork and fiscal measures are the knife. By coordinating the two, the economy can be kept on track. But Eurozone countries are now stuck with a knife and no fork: they can vary their taxes but not the value of their currency. Logically there is no way that this can work.

The vileness of what was done to Greece, the birthplace of European democracy, was one of the things that led me to vote Leave.
That fully explains the Eurozone countries, but not so much the UK since they were not part of the Eurozone - otherwise they would have adopted the Euro and not kept with the Pound - which I gather was one of the provisions that the UK requested while joining. Still it is a lot more than that, as to why the UK left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachboy2 View Post
cynwulf,

It is far from being a Greek problem.

Germany has a massive surplus whilst at the same time Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece are all suffering because they are tied to the euro.

If these countries still had their old currencies then things would not be anywhere near as bad.
The thing is as I mentioned previously - the United States of Europe just won't work - the southern half of europe is different than the north. Work ethics are different, and to the countries in the Med. they see the rules and regulations passed by Brussels a rather heavy burden and has encroached too much on their own ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
It seems extremely clear to me (full disclosure: "as an American ...") that the EU Treaty – following directly the examples created by e.g. NAFTA and the now-failed TPP treaties – will fail unless its proponents drastically alter, and reduce, their vision of what it should consist of.

It seems clear to me that Brussels wanted to create a Federal Government ... a "United States of Europe," with its capitol in "Brussels, DC." But their catastrophic mistake was "to let everybody in." The EU became "oxen unequally yoked together." And, Brussels reached much too far, much too early.

Financially, the system was sucking lifeblood out of strong nations, pushing it into "the Euro," and distributing that strength to weak ones who benefited greatly merely from accepting the Euro.

Legally, Brussels wanted to have an "über-supreme court." It didn't matter what the courts or the laws of your nation said: Brussels' courts trumped everyone. But they didn't simply limit themselves to trade issues.

The "EU Passport" quickly turned into a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for citizens of small, poor countries who just wanted to get the hell out of Dodge and, of course, "move to <London | Paris | Berlin | Rotterdam. >" (Wouldn't you?) And the EU told those countries that they weren't allowed to say "no."

In order to survive, the EU is going to have to very quickly turn itself back into a trade-only Union, and give up most of its self-appointed powers. Its leaders are going to have to talk to, and listen to, all of its present Members, and, quite probably, some of those Members who do not leave on their own are going to have to be sent away.

I frankly don't give it too much chance of success.

While I think that Europe could benefit from a genuine "trade union" containing many of the core elements originally contemplated for the EU, I think that it got something that became its own worst enemy. And I think that this happened because Brussels sincerely believed that "no one would ever leave."
That in itself is probably the main reason for the EU to be unraveling before everyone's eyes - and those in so-called Brussels D.C in being rather aloof - and almost to the point of condescension in the eyes of southern Europe and even the UK. I think the EU has possibly turned into more of some sort of autocrat/technocracy - at least that is my view.

Right now - the Dutch elections is still well over a month away - so that is what I am looking at - even if there is no populist elected (Wilders) - there is still France after that - and again the UK has set the precedent. If the current EU architects want to preserve the EU itself then perhaps they need to radically change their approach. Maybe a looser definition of what the EU should be might be in order; but I haven't any clue of what that means - thats for those in the EU to decide.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 02-09-2017 at 06:37 PM.
 
Old 02-09-2017, 06:52 PM   #107
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This is an interesting analysis: Majority of Europeans Would Support Trump Style Immigration Freeze - though technically it has already happened, if you look at Hungary and their refusal to even take any refugees/migrants.
 
Old 02-09-2017, 08:08 PM   #108
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Something different

Sweet but scandalous? Trump cake served up in German bakery
 
Old 02-09-2017, 08:14 PM   #109
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Brexit bill greenlit as MPs vote for Article 50 to be triggered by 494 to 122 votes
 
Old 02-09-2017, 10:38 PM   #110
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Geert Wilders - President Donald Trump's Travel Order & BREXIT Is Great
 
Old 02-11-2017, 12:19 PM   #111
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The Britisher - The Canary in the Coalmine: What Copeland and Stoke may tell us
 
Old 02-11-2017, 04:25 PM   #112
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Lionel Nation - Capitalism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Neoliberalism: A Primer on the Basics and Nomenclature - This was a very interesting discussion - and gives an interesting history and summary of movements from the left and the right - and how populism is from the left and right. Its a long vid - but it does hit on a lot of intersting points.
 
Old 02-14-2017, 04:05 PM   #113
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Relevant here too.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 02-14-2017 at 04:06 PM.
 
Old 02-14-2017, 05:02 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
This is an interesting analysis: Majority of Europeans Would Support Trump Style Immigration Freeze - though technically it has already happened, if you look at Hungary and their refusal to even take any refugees/migrants.
Well, the legal situation between the two entities is quite different. USA is a single sovereign nation with an unfortunate appetite for "indentured servants."

I think that the "EU Passport" idea was one of the most critical mistakes that the EU organizers made.
 
Old 02-15-2017, 09:23 AM   #115
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Well this is rather interesting: RT - Fear of Influence: 'Post-Truth' report claims Russia 'shaped' world order
 
Old 02-17-2017, 02:10 AM   #116
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Admitting being politically correct

RT - Chuck Todd admits pressure to be politically correct
 
Old 02-17-2017, 11:06 AM   #117
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Quote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit

Tony Blair has said it is his "mission" to persuade Britons to "rise up" and change their minds on Brexit.

Speaking in the City of London, the former prime minister claimed that people voted in the referendum "without knowledge of the true terms of Brexit".
Umm, so what is he suggesting another referendum? What if the vote still comes out to leave, does he just keep calling for referendum after referendum until the 'right vote' is cast? Does he not know how democracy works?
 
Old 02-17-2017, 11:43 AM   #118
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Then, let London also decide to convert the Houses of Parliament into apartment buildings for low-income housing, because, as the EU Treaty is now structured, there is just one Federal Government in "The United States of Europe," and its true capitol is in "Brussels, DC." Anyone from the most dirt-poor country in Europe is free to come to London and to enjoy the fruits of the land to which they have come ... and they will, in enormous numbers. Especially if they're really sick and need to take advantage of your National Health Service (until they've bankrupted it ... oops).

No, the people of the country really did decide to reject this treaty, and although they are the first they won't be the last. EU might (or, might not) survive the experience, but if it does survive it will be in a radically different form with a much smaller charter and purpose.

America (and China) has already rejected the "TPP" treaty, and I think that the present "NAFTA" treaty won't be too far behind. (Mexico might be the one to withdraw first.) All of these trade deals, including EU, are very poorly designed.

"Trade," I think we all agree, "is a Good Thing.™" But giving up one's national sovereignty in the name of "Trade" is not.

As Donald Trump has already observed, on the other side of The Pond, you must have a national identity and you must put your own country first. Only then can you "trade from a position of strength," and protect the vital interests of your own citizens, as your citizens implicitly expect you to do at all times.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-17-2017 at 11:47 AM.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 01:15 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Then, let London also decide to convert the Houses of Parliament into apartment buildings for low-income housing, because, as the EU Treaty is now structured, there is just one Federal Government in "The United States of Europe," and its true capitol is in "Brussels, DC." Anyone from the most dirt-poor country in Europe is free to come to London and to enjoy the fruits of the land to which they have come ... and they will, in enormous numbers. Especially if they're really sick and need to take advantage of your National Health Service (until they've bankrupted it ... oops).

No, the people of the country really did decide to reject this treaty, and although they are the first they won't be the last. EU might (or, might not) survive the experience, but if it does survive it will be in a radically different form with a much smaller charter and purpose.
So it seems that Blair is still playing the fear card and 'they were misinformed' card. I do not know how - I am sure the voter would have looked at the pros and cons of leaving vs staying, but I guess Blair does not want to give out such credit - wagging his finger - how dare they vote like that?

RT - Rise up against Brexit! Tony Blair urges Brits to remain in EU

Anyways, so right now in the US we are seeing a possible coup d'etat play out before our eyes, I wonder if Blair and any other 'pro EU' in the UK are also preparing some kind of media war as well as some kind of takeover of Parliament. I know we keep crossing into conspiracy territory but given what is being fought for, I am sure the losing side might resort to more drastic measures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
America (and China) has already rejected the "TPP" treaty, and I think that the present "NAFTA" treaty won't be too far behind. (Mexico might be the one to withdraw first.) All of these trade deals, including EU, are very poorly designed.

"Trade," I think we all agree, "is a Good Thing.™" But giving up one's national sovereignty in the name of "Trade" is not.

As Donald Trump has already observed, on the other side of The Pond, you must have a national identity and you must put your own country first. Only then can you "trade from a position of strength," and protect the vital interests of your own citizens, as your citizens implicitly expect you to do at all times.
Here I go again but, I think it is time the rest of the world put the screws on any Soros funded organisations. China has already called Soros out on not to mess with China's currency the Renminbi by starting speculations. After all that is how he broke the bank of England and cause the Asian recession afterwards in the 1990s.

Remember not even his own home country of Hungary wants anything to do with him, Russia did issue an arrest warrant - and if it is found out that anyone tied to Soros or Soros himself is responsible for the leaks and soft coup against Trump - then the US gov really needs to act and just outright get rid of this parasite.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 01:21 PM   #120
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And, I just now came across this - Putin warned us in '07.


Inessa S - Putin's prophecy comes true - Munich Speech 2007


All I can say is....damn!
 
  


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