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Old 06-21-2007, 02:04 PM   #1
vsjha18
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Angry Need to install FC6, on a machine having two bootable Hard Disks


My problem is very tricky one and really need ur sincere help to get over it. Following is the situation explained.
I have two Hard Disks in my machine (which i will call HD1 and HD2) with mulitiple partitions in them. In the C drive of the HD1 there is a WIN XP installed which i have abandoned using as some system files are missing. On the first partition of the HD2 i have the WIN XP installed, and which i am actively using. I have to install the third OS Fedora Core 6 and still need the XP on HD2 to be usable. (when the sys boots it still gives me option to choose from both the XPs)

Now pls tell me, can i install FC6 in:

1. C drive of HD1, and still i want the XP in HD2 to be usable.(i doubt if it formats the C drive the boot.ini will go for a toss)

2. Any other partion of the HD1 and still i want the XP in HD2 to be usable

3. Or, I am forced to insatll FC6 in any other partition of the HD2?

** boot.ini file is in C drive of HD1.
Pls let me know whcih of the options are correct, let me know in case more than one is correct.
I know this problem is little weired, but pls get me out of it.
Sys Hardware: Intel Pentium 4, 2.6 GHz Processor
Intel845 GVSR chipset
512 MB RAM

Also pls be elaborate as i am new to the LINUX World

Last edited by vsjha18; 06-21-2007 at 02:17 PM.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 07:55 PM   #2
stoat
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Hello vsjha18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

Now pls tell me, can i install FC6 in:

1. C drive of HD1, and still i want the XP in HD2 to be usable.(i doubt if it formats the C drive the boot.ini will go for a toss)

2. Any other partion of the HD1 and still i want the XP in HD2 to be usable

3. Or, I am forced to insatll FC6 in any other partition of the HD2?
You can safely install Fedora anywhere on either hard drive EXCEPT the actual XP partition that you want to preserve AND the partition that contains the XP boot loader files. It's up to you to correctly identify those partitions. The XP partition will be more or less obvious. The partition with the XP boot loader files is usually the first partition of the first hard drive in the BIOS boot order. You can confirm this partition by looking for the hidden system files boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com (unhide them to see them). Wherever those files are, don't install Fedora there.

Since you seem very edgy about your main XP system, I recommend two things in particular to minimize risk to your main XP system:
  1. Backup everything that is important on BOTH drives to CD or DVD before you do anything.
  2. When you install Fedora, choose the option to install the GRUB boot loader in the first sector of the Fedora boot partition (not the master boot record) and then configure the XP boot loader to boot both systems.
If no one else proposes an idea that you like better and you want to proceed along these lines, come back and I or someone will help step-by-step as needed. But for now, in general terms, I am proposing this...
  1. Create free unpartitioned space on your hard drive with a partition manager (I like the GParted LiveCD)
  2. Install Fedora telling it to use ONLY the free space that you created
  3. Watch for and select the boot loader option Configure advanced boot loader options and on the next page select Install Boot Loader record on first sector of boot partition
  4. After installing this way, Fedora will not boot at first (this is normal at this point)
  5. Configure the XP boot loader to add Fedora to the XP boot menu.
WARNING: All of this is carries some risk of upsetting or damaging or ruining your current setup and data if any part of it is done carelessly. Read about it, think about it, plan what you are going to do, ask if you don't understand anything.

Last edited by stoat; 06-21-2007 at 09:03 PM.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 10:37 PM   #3
rhipps
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another option.....

what I did was disable one drive in the BIOS, then install Fedora. It can't possibly harm my C: (WinXP) drive that way. I put Fed on what was the D: drive. When I boot XP, I just reenable the C: drive. The Linux install is safe as XP can't read the file system anyway.

and I sleep real well at night.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 12:01 AM   #4
Wp2
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Hi vsjha18...here are some addon ideas to the above suggestions.

For a time I had difficulty installing some distros with two
IDE drives. I seem to remember Fedora being one of those.
If one of the drives is SATA then it seems to be okay for all the install programs I've come across.

Working with two IDE drives I found I had to unplug the drive and make the install. Then use a floppy for each new distro. Later if there is an adjustment needed to the boot menu you can easily do this from another distro.

Another option that I found worked well in some situations was using the Ultimate Boot CD. This is a live cd with many tools. In one of the menus...I believe file tools there is a program called gujin which scans your hard drives for bootable images and often you can then boot from their selection. I haven't used it in a year or so.. there was only support for ext2 and 3 not reiserfs which may have changed by now. As well if there was an initrd it picked up on this may hang the puter too but you can always delete that one

Anyways good luck.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 04:46 PM   #5
vsjha18
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Hello Stoat,
Thanks a ton for the guidance,but i have few doubts here,

1. When you say "Install Boot Loader record on first sector of boot partition" ; Do u mean the C drive or the drive in which i am installing the fedora.

2. Also rather than installing in the free space on the disk, as u have said, i am comfortable installing it in the D drive which is free (because i dont dont know how to free space which is already allocated to the drive). Can I do so, if yes , the where should i install the GRUB in this case.

3. Also u told "make changes in the XP boot loader". What those changes are?

Last edited by vsjha18; 06-22-2007 at 04:49 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 08:38 PM   #6
stoat
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Hello again vsjha18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

...i have few doubts here,
I can understand that, vsjha18.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

When you say "Install Boot Loader record on first sector of boot partition" ; Do u mean the C drive or the drive in which i am installing the fedora.
That means to install the GRUB boot loader on the actual partition where Fedora is installed (specifically, the Fedora boot partition). Say for example, that you install Fedora on what you are calling the C drive (that term is not used in Linux), and say the Fedora boot partition turns out to be the second partition on that drive. I am suggesting that the GRUB boot loader be installed in the first sector of that second partition in that example. By doing it this way, you can then make your familiar XP boot loader launch Fedora. The alternative to this method is to install GRUB in the master boot record and use GRUB to boot both systems; the XP boot loader would no longer be used. I am specifically suggesting that you NOT do that even though it is a common and popular thing to do. Installing GRUB in the MBR would stop XP from booting until you configured GRUB to boot XP. And, even though it is very very rare, allowing GRUB to be written into the MBR has the potential to damage the MBR. That is why I am suggesting the XP boot loader method: to minimize risk to your XP system. It also happens to be my preferred method of booting Fedora. Some people will argue with me about this. Some will agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

Also rather than installing in the free space on the disk, as u have said, i am comfortable installing it in the D drive which is free (because i dont dont know how to free space which is already allocated to the drive). Can I do so, if yes , the where should i install the GRUB in this case.
By free space, I don't just mean space that is not being used. I mean space that is not partitioned at all. I doubt that you have any unpartitioned space now. But you can still use that drive for Fedora if you want to. You just have to get used to the idea of having to learn how to use a partition manager to create free unpartitioned space. Relax, it's easy if you use the GParted LiveCD. It is incredibly easy to learn and use. I have found it to be safe and reliable. The free space that Fedora needs for installation can be created either by deleting existing partitions that are no longer needed or by shrinking existing partitions that are still needed but have some size to give up. Study your current hard drive layout and situation and decide how best to get some free space. By the way, you will need at least about 10 GB for a basic Fedora system. More is okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

Also u told "make changes in the XP boot loader". What those changes are?
After Fedora is successfully installed, you copy GRUB stage1 from the first sector of the Fedora boot partition to a binary file in the XP root directory. Next, you add a single text line to the boot.ini file to add Fedora to the XP boot menu. It works by having the XP boot loader launch that copy of GRUB stage1 which in turn leads to Fedora starting. All that may sound complicated, but you can do it. In fact, I like to use a free utility called BOOTPART that will do all of that in one step (more about that later). I have done this many many times. I have taught many others to do it. There are many articles on the Internet about it. When the time comes, I will expand the details of this aspect of this proposal.

So, there you have it for now. If you still want to proceed, I remain at your service. If you want to try something else, I will not be insulted. If you have further questions, please ask.

P.S.: Those suggestions by others above that involve unplugging the XP drive to more safely install Fedora don't really apply well in your case. You have the XP boot loader on one drive and the XP system on the other. If you were to unplug the drive with the working XP system thinking you were protecting it while you install a Linux system on the other drive, I promise that you will very likely blow out the XP boot loader files, volume boot record and master boot record that function to boot the XP system on the other drive. You could probably repair it after-the-fact, but why create a mess like that if you don't have to?

Last edited by stoat; 06-23-2007 at 08:59 PM.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 03:27 PM   #7
vsjha18
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Hi Stoat,

Thanks a lot
I have decided to follow the way which u have expalined for the FC6 installation, i.e using the XP boot loader.
But again i have some doubts here.(I am sorry that i am asking so many question, but i have never did any LINUX installation).

1. Is using the FREE SPACE mandatory for the installation? Cant i just format any drive say (E,F,G) and do the installation on it (While installation i will recognize the drive by its size). If this is possible then it will save my effort in creating unpartioned space.

2. can u pls elaborate this "After Fedora is successfully installed, you copy GRUB stage1 from the first sector of the Fedora boot partition to a binary file in the XP root directory"

Is it not sufficient to simply write c:\grldr="Start Linux" in the boot.ini file as the last line. (Will this not avoid the use of BOOTPART)
 
Old 06-24-2007, 04:57 PM   #8
stoat
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Hello again vsjha18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

Is using the FREE SPACE mandatory for the installation?
No, it is not mandatory. The reason I keep referring to it is because it is one of the partitioning options in the Fedora installation process. See Chapter 10 of the Fedora 6 Installation Guide for more about this. For a beginner, my recommendation is to select the option to install the default layout in free space because I think it simplifies the process and minimizes the chance of selecting the wrong partition to use for installing Fedora.

But you may select other partitioning options. The Fedora installer has a feature called the Disk Druid which can delete or reformat existing partitions during the installation process. See section 10.2 of the guide about that. In fact, I recommend that you read the entire installation guide. It will give you a good understanding and preview of what you are in for when you install Fedora Core 6.

Note: Did you know that you can also use the Disk Management utility in Windows XP to delete an existing partition and create free space? However, the XP utility will not resize a partition...
Code:
Start > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Disk Management



Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

can u pls elaborate this "After Fedora is successfully installed, you copy GRUB stage1 from the first sector of the Fedora boot partition to a binary file in the XP root directory"
There is not much else to say if you use BOOTPART to do it. Download BOOTPART and unzip the files. After you install Fedora, you simply run the command bootpart.exe in a Windows XP Command Prompt window. It will list all of your partitions and assign a number to them. Find the Fedora boot partition in the list and run the command again with some options with it (the number of the Fedora boot partition, the name to give the binary file, the way you want Fedora listed in the XP boot menu). This is a typical example just to illustrate...
Code:
bootpart.exe 4 c:\fc6.bin "Fedora Core 6"
That one command does everything that you are now concerned about. In this example, it copies GRUB stage1 to a file named c:\fc6.bin and adds the option "Fedora Core 6" to your XP boot loader menu. I promise to give step-by-step detail on this when the time comes. But it really is just that simple and takes me literally about 15 seconds to do it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vsjha18

Is it not sufficient to simply write c:\grldr="Start Linux" in the boot.ini file as the last line. (Will this not avoid the use of BOOTPART)
I believe you are referring to GRUB4DOS now. It uses a file named grldr. You can use GRUB4DOS to boot Fedora if you want to. But you have to do more than edit boot.ini. You have to download GRUB4DOS. Then you copy the file grldr to your Windows root directory and create a configuration file for it. I have never used GRUB4DOS and cannot give any additional help with it. You can teach it to yourself from tutorials available on the Internet (search with Google using grub4dos). I briefly looked at the tutorial at sourceforge.net. There are several ways to use GRUB4DOS, and I recommend that you do not install GRUB4DOS in your master boot record. There are ways to use it without doing that.

My opinion: GRUB4DOS will complicate, not simplify, the booting of Fedora compared to just configuring the XP boot loader to boot it.

Last edited by stoat; 06-24-2007 at 07:01 PM.
 
Old 06-25-2007, 11:10 AM   #9
vsjha18
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Thanks a lot Stoat, for all the help.
It seems that now i should give it a try to install the FC6, I am very confident that all the suggestions will be very useful during the installation.
I will read the installation guide before going ahead as you have recommended.
 
Old 06-30-2007, 03:45 AM   #10
vsjha18
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Hi Stoat,
Need ur help again. I started the FC 6 installation exactly as u explained above. Everything was going fine, but at a palce "Resoving Package Dependencies ..." it got hung for many hours. The media is in the good condition as i have installed using the same media on other systems.
Do u have any clues, what could be the probable reason. Is there any way to skip this stage of the installation.
 
  


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